Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued v2

emilylab wrote:
Apple should require a valid, registered Iphone 4 number before enabling anyone to post in this forum. I'll bet 80% of the posts would disappear and we would be left with users with real problems and real posters trying to help

Are you really that thick, Emily?

emilylab wrote:
Michael, you need help man...100 phones tested.????? Lol

I have no axe to grind. My iP4 presently appears to be working perfectly. But I've 'tested' maybe 20 handsets or so to see if I can find one with a PS fault. No luck so far. That's telling me it's more to do with the user than the handset. I believe all the handsets are the same. They are all 'faulty' to people who have the PS issue, and they are all working perfectly to the majority of us.

I'm not saying there is no fault. I am saying there is a design issue in that Apple did not take everyone's usage method into cnsideration when they 'tested' the handset. But the user appears to be the deciding factor in whether or not any handset has a proximity sensor issue. If that's the case, Michael is right. There is no software fix. Maybe a user override option at best.

Michael nobody in their right mind believes you have "tested" one hundred plus phones. Even if you had the means your data of 100/1,000,000's is statistically insignificant.

You have for whatever reason whipped yourself into a frenzy and want people to believe things that they know better than to believe. If you know more than Apple start your own company and become a billionaire. If not come back to earth or at least quit making yourself look like a fool.

You want an example of you being wrong? Pick a post and there is your evidence. My personal favorite is your frothing at the mouth telling people that they have problems when they say they don't have because all the phones are identical. I can't tell you how many posts you made to this effect. Then right after that you state your phone never had connection issues :/ If some people have connection issues caused by the phone and some people don't then I guess a logical mind would reach the conclusion that not all phones are identical.

I had a 3GS that the headset speaker failed in. I have another one that it didn't and has more minutes on it. Are those two phones identical? Of course not.

At first I thought you were a paid troll but I think you gone way past that and have shown yourself to have mental issues. Delusions? A feeling of self importance? There more then enough evidence posted on this topic to suggest you should seek help.

Does that mean you will? Of course not. It doesn't even mean you are mentally ill for a fact. But it is a more logical conclusion than you telling people what they need to do. Because you have no way of knowing what is right for them. Even if they followed your suggestions it would not solve a single problem they have. Not one. The biggest part of problem solving is solving the problem and you are not doing that. You can't solve any problem that anyone has here because you don't have the means to do so. Most everyone realizes that.

The worst part of your schtick is that you are complicating the matter. Which makes you a liability and not asset for those poeple like myself searching for a solution.

I could go on and on but I will leave that to you as it appears that is the only skill set you posses. For the love of God, Allah, and Buddha please quit highlighting the fact you know nothing and yet continuing to blabber on and on.

I am sorry , I still did not see a quote where I was wrong in the past on the Proximity Sensor Issue. Everything I said is slowly but surely appears to be the true case.

Of course some phones may be defective but when I said all the phones are the same I meant all they have the proximity sensors acting the same. On top of it some units may have more specific problems.

You can try to call me any names you want to. It does not matter for me. You can not focus on the subject. If I do not know anything according to you that how did I know 2 months ago it is not fixable and software can not fix it ?
May be you can not deal with the fact that somebody other than Apple ( this is your God) knows more than you know.
I already mentioned that I can Not fix your phone and nobody can. This is manufacture failure and it has to be re designed.

I already do have my own company and I am making more than enough . ( Not as much as Apple but in the Steve Jobs numbers). But how does it help Proximity Sensor.

I do NOT tell people what to do . Everybody decides what to do with their phones. But I do not allow some people to lie and mislead the public. The only time when you can interpret my posts as telling others what to do is when I stated everybody should know it is an Apple strategy to delay until 30 days are over.

The rest of your frustration again shows me you can Not face the truth. This issue is NOT fixable until the re design is done and what solution you looking for is now really a big question.

Are you sure you can comprehend what I am saying ?

clearly this in not a "user error" issue. i have always been a big apple fan and supporter . i have to say, i am at the end of my rope with the iphone 4. while i love all its amazing features, it's kind of hard to deal with the fact the the phone drops calls, mutes, disconnects and dials other contacts while in conversation.

apple has replaced my iphone four now three times. the proximity sensor issue is the worst on this phone.

apple needs to get real and admit there is in fact a problem and buck up and fix asap.

emily, if you are not having problems with your phone, be happy and don't waste time in a forum where people are in fact having issues. if you are interested in swapping phones, i would be glad to let experience the "joy" proximity sensor.

nicoleth wrote:
clearly this in not a "user error" issue. i have always been a big apple fan and supporter . i have to say, i am at the end of my rope with the iphone 4. while i love all its amazing features, it's kind of hard to deal with the fact the the phone drops calls, mutes, disconnects and dials other contacts while in conversation.

apple has replaced my iphone four now three times. the proximity sensor issue is the worst on this phone.

apple needs to get real and admit there is in fact a problem and buck up and fix asap.

emily, if you are not having problems with your phone, be happy and don't waste time in a forum where people are in fact having issues. if you are interested in swapping phones, i would be glad to let experience the "joy" proximity sensor.

You are a perfect case in point. Do you believe Apple have selected yopu specifically and deliberately give you faulty phones? Do you believe you just have bad luck and always get bad phones from the bad batches? Or do you believe the phones are all the same and the vast majority of people use their phones in a special way that means they don't find the secret of this fault?

How do you explain you have had four faulty handsets and yet the vast majority of people have no issue with their phones at all? How can that be anything other than the users using their phones differently unless you think Apple are singling out specific customers for special persecution?

Your entire statement is illogical and not bourne out by either the evidence accumulated on the threads or your very own experience with your phones. If you read the threads, you will wake up and smell the coffee soon enough. Then you will either take action to sort the problem, or return your phone and wait for the next one.

Now begins your learning experience. Your projected frustration and rage that you are in this situation. Your affronted temper at being told what you don't want to hear, and hopefully ypour determination to prove us wrong. You have a product that you have to adapt to. I know it is an affront to the nature of buyer is always right and the God given right to expect everything to be the way we want them to be, but there you are. Your phones are working fine. You need to learn to use it, and Apple have given a chance to test and opt out. They don't have a special box of 'faulty' handsets sitting in stores waiting for you to make another exchange, and yes, the vast majority of users cannot find or create the fault you are experiencing. We just use our phones the way we've always used our phones, and if we used your phone we wouldn't have a problem with that one either. The key is to experiment and find out whatthe majority of users do that you do not. Or return the phone and go by something from Samsung.

I'm on my 4th iP4, so yes, they DO all have the issue. *What SOME people can't get through their freaking heads is the ROLE and PURPOSE of FIRMWARE... it prevents having to do RECALLS!

That being said, EMPIRE, we are still waiting for you to post screen shots of your Xcode and and (hundreds) of Iphone 4s running iOS 4.1 b3. Just a few will suffice, thanks.
Do not reply, protest, babble incessantly or type any more delusions of grandeur. Just post links to your screens.

And to the lovely and talented mbasshat, please explain to us morons what are the specific APIs and frameworks that the PS calls on that are preventing (it) from ever, ever, ever being readjusted - as you so emphatically state.

The only remaining question here is how this slipped past testing. My best GUESS is manufacturing process/ parts suppliers in China. As I posted quite a while back, on my 2nd swap, the Genius SHOWED me his co-worker's iP4, using a micro flashlight, how the glass was LIGHTER on that model... a model with no PS issues. Therefore, I can deduct that Apple changed the glass in later models and that they're going to fix the issue for the rest with darker glass.

*If you think Apple, Inc is INTENTIONALLY selling millions of defective phones on purpose, than I'd strongly suggest you look a little deeper into the methodologies and principals of one Steven P. Jobs. Heads are ROLLING. NO sleep for engineers, pure ****, 80 hour weeks, etc.

Yes. it's frustrating as all h*ll. It WILL get fixed, one way or the other. Mine only misbehaves on the left side, btw.

chotty1 wrote:
I'm on my 4th iP4, so yes, they DO all have the issue. *What SOME people can't get through their freaking heads is the ROLE and PURPOSE of FIRMWARE... it prevents having to do RECALLS!

That being said, EMPIRE, we are still waiting for you to post screen shots of your Xcode and and (hundreds) of Iphone 4s running iOS 4.1 b3. Just a few will suffice, thanks.
Do not reply, protest, babble incessantly or type any more delusions of grandeur. Just post links to your screens.

And to the lovely and talented mbasshat, please explain to us morons what are the specific APIs and frameworks that the PS calls on that are preventing (it) from ever, ever, ever being readjusted - as you so emphatically state.

The only remaining question here is how this slipped past testing. My best GUESS is manufacturing process/ parts suppliers in China. As I posted quite a while back, on my 2nd swap, the Genius SHOWED me his co-worker's iP4, using a micro flashlight, how the glass was LIGHTER on that model... a model with no PS issues. Therefore, I can deduct that Apple changed the glass in later models and that they're going to fix the issue for the rest with darker glass.

*If you think Apple, Inc is INTENTIONALLY selling millions of defective phones on purpose, than I'd strongly suggest you look a little deeper into the methodologies and principals of one Steven P. Jobs. Heads are ROLLING. NO sleep for engineers, pure ****, 80 hour weeks, etc.

Yes. it's frustrating as all h*ll. It WILL get fixed, one way or the other. Mine only misbehaves on the left side, btw.

1. Thanks God you confirm that you on your 4 iphone 4 and those all have the Proximity issue. Should I add up your 4 iphone4 as also tested by reliable source and having the issue ?
2. Please specify what screen shots with iphone4 4.1 Beta 3 and what codes do you want to see and I will try to provide them for you. I never said i tested 100 on 4.1 Beta 3 . I tested only 2 of them and they are not mine but I can get you what you need.
3. Apple Intentionally selling the defective phone. It does not mean Apple is not trying to fix it or not willing to fix it. But they simply can not fix it.
But engineers may work 100 house a week but still the sale of the defective phones continues .
4. On the new iphone4 selling this week ( I already went to AT&T this Morning to Look ) there are no lighter glass. I asked someone working in the store and the issue is still the same on this week sold phones. So for now it is another legent.Go to Any Apple store and when people buy a new phone just compare your glass color to their color and you will see.
In any case it is not the color of the glass causing the problem. So even the glass is completely clear we still have the problem.
5. You are correct It will be fixed one way or another . But it will not be free fix and all previous phones exchanges will not be for free. It is re design of the iphone4 involved and Apple will never spend that much money for 10 Mln phones to be replaced.

@Chotty - So, if you think ALL iPhone 4s are faulty, why do so few people have any problem with the PS sensor? Why do the vast majority of users not have an issue with their phones? Why is there no way of recreating the fault on a handset and no way of recreating the fault on camers?

I agree that all the handsets are the same. It's just that it was designed to be used by the vast majority of users in the manner the vast majority of users use phones, and hey presto, they all work perfectly and they have no issue.

Inevitably whenever a product comes out there will be people who have a problem figuring out how to interact with it, and regretably, you fall into that tiny percentage. But that is not the fault of the handset. You might say it is the fault of Apple, because they didn't send out 100,000 handsets to random iPhone 3G users and ake them to test it, buy, within the realms of the real world, Apple tested the handset and it works.

Learn and adapt and join the rest of the iPhone using world, or return your handset and buy a competitor's advice.

<Edited by Host>

@MichaelEmpire - I know we've bandied words and taken pot shots at eachother, and I know we now understand where eachother is coming from. I don't think Apple are 'intentionally selling faulty products'. The best I can explain it is that Apple are selling a product that they know some users have an issue with and which could be seen as having a sub-optimal sensor arrangement.' The phone works for the vast majority of people, either by design or by accident, or by virtue or usage pattern. As we type they roll out iPhone 4 in Korea, China and South Africa. It single-handedly is the worlds best selling phone and we are only eight weeks in to the rollout around the world. I know Apple will never disclose the actual figure or reported PS faults, but they will have the number of individual users experiencing this fault, and the number of individual handsets returned because of this fault. These presumably get repackaged and fed back into the supply chain.

There has to be a provable fault in order to demonstrate disreputable activity. There also has to be proof that Apple are aware that this issue is indemic accross the entire product stock. Neither of which seems to be true.

Yes, Apple cannot deny being aware that the issue exists, and yes they cannot deny that the hardware is sub-optimal, but both fall far short of demonstrating any form of criminal intent. And to all intent and purpose, Apple have acted with goodwill offering everyone 30 days to test the handset and see if it works for them. If it does, they are happy. If it does not they offer a full no questions asked refund. There is no way any court in the developed world would uphold a case of criminal negligence or fraud.

The issue could quite easily be demonstrated to be a user initiated fault, and not one with the hardware. All Apple would have to do is roll out hundreds of people making phone calls perfectly normally and with no fault on the handset. There seems to be no video evidence yet of anyone making a phone call on an iPhone 4 and finding the call muted, redialed or hung up on. Without evidence, even at present, there cannot be any wrongdoing.

@Everyone Else - I believe the nature of some people's jobs and who they work for and where they are positioned within certain organisations structures, does not allow them to be candid about who they are or where they get their data from. Everyone's first concern should be their own self interest, and for some people that is not a monetary issue but the protection of one's career and the furtherance of clarity and honest in their iductry.

That may be simple ignorance on my part. After all I'm just a brickie.

<Edited by Host>

Wow, you guys seriously need a life.

The fact that some of you are still bemoaning this thing and haven't returned it probably says a lot more about you than Apple or the iPhone. If it makes you feel any better, everyone I know who has an iPhone 4 doesn't have this problem--yet then again, no-one holds it like a tonto in those youtube videos that people keep posting.

If you've already exchanged the phone and it doesn't fix it, return it or try holding it higher on your ear until 4.1 comes out. If your panties are still in a bind, then either return it or sell it. Believe me, there's plenty of people willing to buy one.

If you've already returned or sold it and you're STILL in here bemoaning this issue, my god then find a life, lover, or a dog, and by no means in any particular order. _Move on_, mentor a kid or donate blood or something... _It's not like you haven't got the time._

With all the respect I disagree that Vast majority do not have problem with PS.
I really doubt it. But may be vast majority is really ready to put up with it for unknown to me reason.
How can we decide if this is the majority effected or Minority ? Only by return rate. But when this rate manipulated intentionally and when the baseless promises are given we still never get the actual return rate.
You tested 20 iphones4 correct ? All of them had some PS issue , correct ?
I tested about 100 and they all have the issue . How come minority is effected when I personally did not see a single user having a normal life with iphone4.
Some people do not care . Big Deal muted calls , disconnected and holds. So their answer we will call again , we like iphone4 , it looks great and it is new.

No just a funny story. I went for hair cut and was looking at the mirror when the lady was talking on her iphone4 and she was holding it very close to her face and she did not have any problem. So when my hair cut was done I asked her if she ever had a problem with calls be muted and put on hold by her cheek when she was talking and then she said : O'yes . all the time . What is it ? Is it my phone ? I was about to go to AT&T and ask .
I asked if she knew that she only had 30 days and she was surprised but not disappointed at all and comment: OK , So I will keep it and suffer a little bit until the next phone comes up.
This is the real world of people who are too busy to understand they were sold defective product. And they do not really care.

Oso Grande wrote:
Wow, you guys seriously need a life.

The fact that some of you are still bemoaning this thing and haven't returned it probably says a lot more about you than Apple or the iPhone. If it makes you feel any better, everyone I know who has an iPhone 4 doesn't have this problem--yet then again, no-one holds it like a tonto in those youtube videos that people keep posting.

If you've already exchanged the phone and it doesn't fix it, return it or try holding it higher on your ear until 4.1 comes out. If your panties are still in a bind, then either return it or sell it. Believe me, there's plenty of people willing to buy one.

If you've already returned or sold it and you're STILL in here bemoaning this issue, my god then find a life, lover, or a dog, and by no means in any particular order. _Move on_, mentor a kid or donate blood or something... _It's not like you haven't got the time._

You are probably right about our obsession with the issue. But I followed your advice called the dog shelter..and phone call was disconnected , I was using the iphone4 . I called again and muted the call and the shelter hang up on me...
You think a child or a lover can be that patient if I call them on iphone4 with the proximity Issue ?

I am sorry your recommendation about 4.1 also will not help and it will fix nothing.
I also apologize I really do not like to think how to hold the phone to prevent something happen. I never did it before with any phone and I really do not want to change my habits.
What is it : Phones made for us or now we have to be adopted for the phones.
Get a life do not read it , you do not have this problem and never had and never knew anybody who had or has it .

Easy fix = *Return it.* Move on with your life, get another phone. Anything more than that requires psychological and perhaps pathological intervention.

@Michael - No. Ive tested about 20 handsets. Two of my own, two owned by PC World employees, a few in my local Apple store, some in local shops run by carriers, and maybe a dozen owned by friends and colleagues.

I haven't been able to reproduce the PS sensor problem at all. I have been able to do the mirror test. I have been able to get my phone lighting up my face, but I cannot manage to get my cheek or my ear to activate the controls on the screen. Clearly the sensors are not operating in the manner you'd expect them to, but I cannot create a fault.

Now, I have just this morning installed the iPhone 4 Defender from Otterbox, and some reports say this exagerates the problem because it forces the sensor purther from the ear and creast a little reflective scoop around it. So I will need to see how this performs in real life and if my phone all of a sunden begins to exhibit this fault.

But as of today, I have been living a normal life like a lot of people giving little regard to my phone because it appears to do exactly what it's meant to do. In fact the only annoying thing I've found is that you cannot move people's address pins so that you can get their correct map location in maps from contacts. When Google have the address wrong, the system automatically overrides where you tell them someone lives in favour of the superior knowledge of Google who know jack sh't. But hey ho. It's no biggie and I can live without it working the way I want it to.

I guess there are poeple who think hey ho, I can live with the PS issue because for them it's no biggie.

Oso Grande wrote:
Easy fix = *Return it.* Move on with your life, get another phone. Anything more than that requires psychological and perhaps pathological intervention.

Thanks for the advice. i am just fine . I use iphone 3GS for every day and play with factory unlocked iphone4 as a toy and do not care if it is useless as a phone or not. I do not have any contract .
This is my hobby to fix and play with iphones . I have a collection of them.
But Thanks for your recommendations and your concern about my mental health. I hope it really helped everybody and yourself to discuss the Proximity sensor problem.
Move on with your life , get a dog or a cat . You do not need to be here and/or read it.