Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Advice for buying new iMac

I have an iMac (2013 model) purchased in 2014 with MacOS 10.14.6., 16 GB memory, 21.5” monitor, wired mouse model # A1152, wired keyboard. The internal storage is 1.12 TB, 895 GB available (about 220 GB used). I have a port extension to handle 3 more external USB connections that the 4 USB ports cannot handle. The Timemachine backups go to an external drive.

My imac does a great job, I have a lot more storage than I need, the monitor is excellent. I never had any performance issues. My most used applications are email and MS Office. I could not care less for any new "features".

Unfortunately, with Apple's yearly OS releases I am left behind, and my computer cannot be upgraded to Sonoma, I can no longer update it and benefit from security patches or support.

So I have zero choices (based on what I see), but buy a new computer. I am considering buying a new desktop, probably another imac. I looked at what the Apple store offers now. The "basic" imac model with the 24" monitor comes with only 2 ports and 256k storage. None of them seems to be enough and to support what I have requires additional "components" such as USB C to USB A connectors, maybe a docking station with additional ports and a lot more storage space. A new external drive was also recommended. By the time I add this up it will be more than $2,000.

I would appreciate any suggestions for somehow keeping the cost down, as this is a lot more than I was planning to spend (while throwing out a perfectly good computer).

[Re-Titled by Moderator]

iMac 21.5″, macOS 10.14

Posted on Nov 30, 2023 2:42 PM

Top-ranking reply

Servant of Cats

Level 7

34,175 points

Posted on Jan 18, 2024 7:37 PM

Suzy2014 wrote:

• After a lot of agony, I decided to buy a new iMac. I'd appreciate some additional info/advise regarding the ports, adapters, hub. With all the prior lessons, I still do not feel comfortable making decisions about the hub I need.

I need capability to connect 6 devices that now have USB 3 connectors (old type): printer, scanner UPS, 2 external drives, keyboard). I would like to continue using the existing wired keyboard, which has plugged in it a wired mouse (to avoid the hassle with having to charge more devices). I hope they will work with the new iMac.

The latest (8 core GPU) iMac has only two Thunderbird 3/USB 4 ports that can be used for:

Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s)

• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

• Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately).

The higher-end 24" M3 iMacs have two additional USB-C (USB 3) ports, and a Gigabit Ethernet port.

It was suggested that I use the Caldigit Element hub which is $200.

https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/•

I am sorry, but I cannot figure out if this hub would meet my needs as described above, hopefully without adapters.

That device would connect to your iMac using a Thunderbolt cable. It would give you

Four downstream USB-A ports that can run at up to 10 Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen 2) speeds
Three downstream USB-C (Thunderbolt) ports

It would not increase the number of external displays your iMac can drive (one). The dual display support that the description talks about depends on there being dual display support on the computer.

Could you please let me know:

if the above hub would do the job

It could do the job, but only with the aid of additional hubs or adapters (USB-C to USB-A). While it is probably a high-quality device, I think it's aimed first and foremost at people who want to split one Thunderbolt chain into 3 Thunderbolt chains. That accounts for a lot of the cost – cost that won't do you any good if all that you use it for is attaching USB-A devices.

• if there is any other hub that would be better for my needs that you would recommend.

Other World Computing and SonnetTech have competing docks that offer more types of ports. I don't see any that have six USB-A ports, although the SonnetTech Echo 20 Thunderbolt 4 SuperDock has eight USB 3 ports: half USB-A, half USB-C.

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-docks

https://www.sonnettech.com/home.html

Here's something that might work. It's not the only example of its type, just the first one that I found.

Amazon – Powered USB Hub RSHTECH Type C to 7 Port USB 3.0 Data Port Hub Expander Aluminum Portable Splitter with Universal 5V AC Adapter and Individual On/Off Switches for Laptop and PC(Black)

This hub isn't nearly as versatile or high-end as the CalDigit dock you mentioned, or the OWC and SonnetTech docks to which I referred above. All that it gives you is USB-A ports: nothing else. It's from some brand that I never heard of before in my life.

It costs all of $26 USD (before 10% coupon and shipping) and would give you seven USB-A ports.

To my mind, this – or something like it – is the right tool for this job. If a time comes when you need something more, then you can look at the $200 – $300 Thunderbolt hubs and docks.

There are so many listed at Amazon and I cannot make sense out of them. Apple staff doesn't help with this....

Basically all that you are looking for is a powered USB-A hub that has a lot of USB 3.0 ports. It's nice if the hub happens to connect to the computer via a USB-C plug … but given that you can get USB-C to USB-A adapters that operate at USB 3 speeds, having a USB-C plug on the uplink is optional.

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65 replies

Jan 19, 2024 6:29 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Would the above issue (which is above my head) be addressed by the following hub:

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Splitter-Extension-Laptop-Computer/dp/B0CJLQW7KL?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

It has a "smart charging port".... I assume that this would allow the hub to be powered (probably after buying the right cable). Would this allow me to use productively all my devices connected to the six USB 3 ports on the hub (without having to connect and disconnect them)?

It looks to me like this hub doesn't come with a power adapter. I don't see any sign that it draws power from a computer using USB-C Power Delivery (or that the iMac would be willing to provide power in that way).

Therefore, unless you added a separate USB-C power brick and cable (to supply 3A @ 5V of power), it would operate as an unpowered hub. The description seems to confirm this when it says "Please offer extra power supply via the usb c port of USB adapter when the power-hungry devices are connected."

They do not mention support for iMACs (and their Thunderbolt ports). Is this of concern?

This isn't a Thunderbolt hub. It's a USB 3.0 one that has a mixture of USB-A connectors (downstream ports) and USB-C connectors (power input port, upstream cable). When you plug it into Mac, it will use the USB 3 support, not the Thunderbolt support.

I assume that an adapter could be used to plug the hub into the iMac's port. Would this hub meet my needs?

You wouldn't need an adapter for the uplink cable. It would plug right in.

You would need to add a USB-C power brick (and cable).

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 19, 2024 7:02 PM in response to Servant of Cats

Thanks. I figured out that a "brick" is a charger. It seems that this one would do the job with the right cable: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-20w-usb-c-power-adapter-white/6437121.p?skuId=6437121&extStoreId=451&utm_source=feed&ref=212&loc=20161460807&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1Mmr9frqgwMVfwitBh0FWQazEAQYAyABEgJVI_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

However I still do not know if even with this "brick", this would be a hub that would do what I am looking for. I do not understand what's the implication of "This isn't a Thunderbolt hub. When you plug it into Mac, it will use the USB 3 support, not the Thunderbolt support."

Any easier way than bothering you to find somehow the "right" hub/dock (if it exists) with all needed components to support my six USB 3 devices and work with the new iMac? This shouldn't be like brain surgery. Where could I go and pay for reliable advice? It is a shame that after Apple sells for a ton of money the iMac, it comes with TWO ports and to add insult to injury, they do not want to offer any help, because they do not have what I need to somehow live with what they sell. It is very frustrating.

Thanks again.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 20, 2024 1:15 PM in response to Servant of Cats

Thanks. Now I understand that " "This isn't a Thunderbolt hub. When you plug it into Mac, it will use the USB 3 support, not the Thunderbolt support." is not something that would prevent me from using one of the hubs that is in this thread, it is just a given, with the Tunderbolt port adapting to what's needed.

My conclusion based on what you kindly shared is that the hub below would do what I am looking for by connecting directly to the Imac, no need for adapter. The Smart Charging Port】(on the USB C hub that comes with an additional USB C 5V/3A power interface, which can provide up to 3A charging power) would be used for a "brick" with a cable (2 additional items I would have to buy). With the right brick that has enough power, I should be able to connect and use all 6 USB 3 peripherals that are now connected to my old iMac (a UPS, printer, scanner, 2 external hard drives and a wired keyboard with a mouse connected to it), without loss of connection, with the same speed as now and without having to unplug any.

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Splitter-Extension-Laptop-Computer/dp/B0CJLQW7KL?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

If the above is correct, could you please point me on Amazon to a sample brick and a cable (to connect the brick to the smart charging port), a brick that would satisfy the power needs of the hub with the 6 devices connected to it. Hopefully this would allow me to get the new iMac, knowing that my peripherals would have a hub that would be connecting them properly to the iMac and allow them to function without issues.

Much appreciated.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 20, 2024 8:37 PM in response to Servant of Cats

Many thanks. I will sleep better tonight. I could have never ever figured this out on my own, although after I wrote down the summary it seems really simple... But it was very hard for me to get it. I appreciate your patience and the teaching. In my next life I might end up being an engineer.

You are correct, the printer, scanner and UPS are plugged into power. I might need the 2m USB-C cable which is 240 W. It is very expensive but I would not want problems if the 15 W $10 one could lead to them.

You mentioned that "This hub only has 3 amps (maximum) to distribute". Is the 15 W added to the 20W supplied by the charger?

I hope I am set and everything will work as advertised. Thanks again.

Jan 20, 2024 9:27 PM in response to Suzy2014

The 15 watts is not in addition to the 20 watts from the charger.

The 15 watts is the maximum amount of 5 volt power that the hub can count on getting from that charger. Also apparently the maximum amount of power which that hub is designed to use.

if the Apple Community thread is correct, the only way that 20 watt charger would provide 20 watts would be if it was using USB-C Power Delivery and a higher voltage with a device that supported those things.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 20, 2024 9:47 PM in response to Servant of Cats

Does this mean that the hub (as you said dimensioned for 15 W) cannot work with the 20 W charger?

Sorry, I do not understand what "the only way that 20 watt charger would provide 20 watts would be if it

was using USB-C Power Delivery and a higher voltage with a device that supported those things." means to the configuration that we were talking about. I have no idea if this means that everything is still OK or not. Too technical for me to translate to anything meaningful for me.

Thanks

Jan 21, 2024 3:03 AM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Does this mean that the hub (as you said dimensioned for 15 W) cannot work with the 20 W charger?

I think that I came to the wrong conclusion about the need to purchase a separate power brick and USB-C power cable. There may well be a power brick in the box. It would certainly make this hub more price-competitive with the others.

Here's the wording that threw me off (highlighting mine):

[Smart Charging Port] - The USB C hub comes with an additional USB C 5V/3A power interface, which can provide up to 3A charging power. When you use multiple USB 3.0 interfaces at the same time, you don't have to worry about device delays and insufficient power caused by insufficient voltage.

"Smart charging port" "power interface" "which can provide up to 3A charging power" sounds a lot like a place to plug in your iPhone, or Kindle, or whatever, when it's out of juice. But I don't think that's the meaning.

Here's what I think they were trying to say, before they mangled the English:

[Powered and Unpowered Operation] - The USB C hub comes with an additional USB C 5V/3A power adapter, which can provide up to 3A of 5V USB power. When you use multiple USB 3.0 interfaces at the same time, you don't have to worry about device delays and insufficient power caused by using more than the 0.9 amps which would be available when using the hub in an unpowered mode, without the power supply.

Given this, it would make sense to just get the hub first … and only get a separate charger and cable if it turns out that you need one.

Sorry, I do not understand what "the only way that 20 watt charger would provide 20 watts would be if it

was using USB-C Power Delivery and a higher voltage with a device that supported those things." means to the configuration that we were talking about. I have no idea if this means that everything is still OK or not. Too technical for me to translate to anything meaningful for me.

This is academic if it turns out that the hub comes with its own power adapter – but here goes.

There are two types of USB power: 5 volt power, and power provided via USB-C Power Delivery. USB-C Power Delivery allows delivery of up to 240 watts of power, using amperages and voltages that can go as high as 5A @ 48V. It also requires negotiation (so devices that understand it do not fry ones that don't), and the use of cables that have chips built in to tell the devices "Yes, it's safe to transmit that much power over this cable."

Mac notebooks use USB-C Power Delivery for charging. I'm pretty sure the iPhone 15 understands it, too.

A low-end, low-cost device that does not need lots of power – like a USB-A hub – might not understand USB-C Power Delivery at all. If you don't support it, you don't need the "smarts" to do power negotiation, or circuitry to convert power that might be delivered at 20 V or more to whatever voltage you need.

If I understand the other Apple Community thread correctly, the Apple 20W charger

Can deliver 15W of 5 volt USB power that doesn't require any special negotiation
Can deliver 20W of negotiated USB-C Power Delivery power – at a voltage higher than 5 volts

So say that this hub does not speak USB-C Power Delivery, and you plug it into the Apple adapter. The adapter sees this, and leaves its high-voltage output turned OFF. It offers up 3A @ 5V. The hub consumes 5V power – blissfully unaware that the other type was even an option. Both devices walk away fat and happy.

Jan 21, 2024 3:54 AM in response to Servant of Cats

Servant of Cats wrote:

There are two types of USB power: 5 volt power, and power provided via USB-C Power Delivery .

I got curious, and took a photo of the fine print on the bottom of my Apple USB-C Power Adapter.

This is a 29W adapter that came with a 12" Retina MacBook, and that I use most of the time with an iPhone.

It can output

2A @ 14.5V (29W) of USB-C Power Delivery power
2.4A @ 5.2V (12.48W) of old-style USB power. (Apparently the standards allow voltages up to 5.25V.)

Whether I use a Lightning adapter or a MagSafe charging pad, it appears that USB-C Power Delivery is involved. But I could plug in some device that knew nothing about USB-C Power Delivery, and as long as it didn't want too much 5V power, the adapter would work with it, too.

Fast charge your iPhone - Apple Support

How to use your MagSafe Charger with iPhone 15, iPhone 14, iPhone 13, and iPhone 12 models - Apple Support

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 21, 2024 8:43 AM in response to Servant of Cats

Thanks. On Friday I managed to contact the vendor in China trough Amazon. I just got his answer:

"This time we recommend the product (Type C TO USB A), and its side has a 5V charging hole. About this charging hole, it is only limited to HUB charging. You can use ordinary Type-C charging cables as well as

normally. For example, the new iPhone's Type-C charging cable, or other types of mobile phones or LAPTOPs Type-C charging cables also can works, you do not need to re-purchase specific charging cables. Just need a

hub to complete the content you need."

I'd appreciate you translating this in the context of what I need. Is this now the same configuration that we had before? If I was confused until now, I am even more confused now....

I do not have the latest model iphone, so I do not have the charging cable they mention.

Is this what I need to be connected and have sufficient power for the hub to reliably support my devices?

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Certified-Lightning-Charging-Adapter/dp/B0BJKH43Q9/ref=asc_df_B0BJKH43Q9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647249032489&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12281863529847126455&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032943&hvtargid=pla-1950726167944&psc=1&mcid=9869393c28c630a5ad28a204ccbcd372

Jan 21, 2024 11:34 AM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Thanks. On Friday I managed to contact the vendor in China trough Amazon. I just got his answer:

"This time we recommend the product (Type C TO USB A), and its side has a 5V charging hole. About this charging hole, it is only limited to HUB charging. You can use ordinary Type-C charging cables as well as

normally. For example, the new iPhone's Type-C charging cable, or other types of mobile phones or LAPTOPs Type-C charging cables also can works, you do not need to re-purchase specific charging cables. Just need a

hub to complete the content you need."

I'd appreciate you translating this in the context of what I need. Is this now the same configuration that we had before? If I was confused until now, I am even more confused now....

The statement "Just need a hub you to complete the content you need" is completely confusing – it makes no sense to me. They also did not directly answer the question of whether the hub includes a power adapter and since they didn't, I am beginning to suspect that it doesn't.

I did read in Wikipedia that all USB-C cables are supposed to be able to carry at least 3A @ 5V – which might explain why the hub's description mentions that amperage, specifically.

Is this what I need to be connected and have sufficient power for the hub to reliably support my devices?

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Certified-Lightning-Charging-Adapter/dp/B0BJKH43Q9/ref=asc_df_B0BJKH43Q9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647249032489&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12281863529847126455&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032943&hvtargid=pla-1950726167944&psc=1&mcid=9869393c28c630a5ad28a204ccbcd372

That doesn't look like what you want. The power brick has a USB-C socket, and the included cable is a USB-C to Lightning cable. So you'd have a Lightning plug on the free end of the cable. The hub needs a USB-C plug.

What you probably would want would be

A USB-A power brick, plus a USB-A to USB-C cable, or
A USB-C power brick, plus a USB-C to USB-C cable

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 21, 2024 6:08 PM in response to steve626

Thanks a lot steve626 for taking the time on a weekend to offer your suggestions. The topics are more complicated than they sound and unfortunately the forum's rules do not allow for the details. Your family is lucky to have you help them with upgrades and issues that come up. I will somehow figure out what will work best for the immediate future and for the long run as this might be a my last computer.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Jan 21, 2024 6:42 PM in response to Servant of Cats

I asked for clarification from the Chinese company and here is the latest answer: "If you want to plug the docking station (Type C TO USB A) into six devices, you need extra power. This power supply needs to be 10W, that is, 5V 2A. But you didn't send this wire, you must have a type c to type c port. Can drive six devices.". We have some obvious communication issues and I still do not know if I have a solution or not for the hub I need for my 6 devices... In addition, as you suggested, I looked at some of the reviews of the B&H hub, and one of them states: "I observe that no usb hard drive ever stays connected to these types of hubs. When it disconnects, you will lose your data since it wasn't ejected properly (not that it's your fault). That includes docking stations. These usb hard drives have to be directly connected to a usb port on the computer. This applies to both m-soft and mac computers.". If this is true, how do I connect all my peripherals (that include two external hard drives) to the TWO ports? Moving to this new iMac with two ports seems to be mission impossible. Almost ready to give up. I appreciate all your help, but I still do not know what's the solution, if any. Obviously if I cannot find a reasonable and reliable solution, I cannot buy the new iMac and have to look for something else better that can easily handle all my devices.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Mar 3, 2024 5:54 PM in response to Suzy2014

Came back to the thread to thank everyone who patiently helped me through the process of buying the new computer and then preparing for the transfer. It helped me a lot. After some stressful days, it seems that everything works as expected. It will take some time to get used to what was moved, renamed, chnaged but as long as things work, I am fine. Your help is much appreciated !!!!!!

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Nov 30, 2023 3:44 PM in response to Old Toad

Thanks for the pointer to GO64. I have only six 3rd party apps and I checked with thei vendors and they have updates that will allow them to work with Sonoma. But I will double check with GO64.

Suzy2014 Author

Level 1

115 points

Nov 30, 2023 3:59 PM in response to Old Toad

I ran GO64. Smart application. It found one application that I didn't remember I had. The rest are for the Epson scanner (which I knew about) and Apple itself.

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Advice for buying new iMac