Airplay on old Apple TV

ok, instead of me going through all the forum, threads and web sites which I can't be bothered in doing right at this moment, you tell me where it states that the last update (before it was going to released) would be for the AppleTV 2nd Gen and that the Apple TV 1st Gen wouldnt be supported or updated ??

It might state it on the actual release but NOT before the release !!

...you tell me where it states that the last update (before it was going to released) would be for the AppleTV 2nd Gen and that the Apple TV 1st Gen wouldnt be supported or updated ??

There is a difference between supporting a device and upgrading it. I would expect Apple to release bug fix or security updates for the ATV1 if problems are discovered, but the ATV1 and ATV2 use completely different hardware and operating systems, so it is not possible for an iOS update to be applied to an ATV1. The ATV1 has been superceded by the ATV2, so it is not realistic to expect any more software upgrades for it.

Folks,

I think we are all missing the point here. For me, I THINK I saw somewhere that Apple TV (not mentioning which version) would support airplay. But I could be proven wrong.

But one thing is sure: A more than 3 years old Airport Express indeed supports AirPlay (for audio), and I think that AppleTV 1 not supporting it is intentional, which is just unfair to Apple's customers. It's that simple - to support an ultra old product and not one that was until recently on sale is just not fair, at least for a functionality whose standard hasn't changed - there was just a name change - AirTunes to Airplay!

there was just a name change - AirTunes to Airplay!

No, they are functionally different. AirPlay is an iOS 4.2 feature that allows iOS 4.2 devices to stream directly to an ATV2 (which is an iOS 4.2 device), it has nothing to do with AirTunes, which preceded iOS and works with OS X devices.

capaho wrote:

No, they are functionally different. AirPlay is an iOS 4.2 feature that allows iOS 4.2 devices to stream directly to an ATV2 (which is an iOS 4.2 device), it has nothing to do with AirTunes, which preceded iOS and works with OS X devices.

Er... excuse me! It is just the same thing, just a new name. It streams to Airport Base Stations in the same fashion that AirTunes did. It's not just for iOS devices - iTunes also streams. Airport Expresses shows up as targets for streaming too. SAME THING (of course, with new features, such as video), working on legacy hardware. If you open iTunes now, you will see that it became AirPlay even when it is streaming to an old Airport Express - AirTunes is no more.

How many times has updates or upgrades been released for 1 product and then ported over to another system.

Take for example you build a pc game and then port it over to PS3 and Xbox360. They are all on simular systems but different OS's. Plus applications that have been made for PC and also Mac.

Maybe the ATV1 and ATV2 are different OS's but come on your telling my that Apple havent got the brains to do it ?? Its more like they can't be bothered and only want to support the most up to date item even though the ATV1 was being sold at twice the price of the ATV2 and Apple stating updates would be coming.

The times I see games or applications being ported over to different systems and the big companies like Apple who refuse to do anymore to suport their items, but the ones who continue to try and support the items are the users themselves.

capaho wrote:

I found out that the old airtunes used Bonjour to communicate with the old atv.

Bonjour is just Apple's name for mDNS. It allows Apple devices to find each other on a network, but it has nothing to do with the streaming protocols.

I don't recall saying it was?

I said it was a way in which the could communicate with each other, as you say it allows devices to find each other on a network. But, it's actually Apple and non-Apple as you incorrectly stated. It's how airplay will connect with the many airplay ready peripherals that are coming onto the market.

You would be well advised to brush up on the technical issues as it appears that you simply don't understand them.

You're an expert in this specific field then?

The ATV2 uses the A4 SOC, which is new technology, and iOS, which is significantly different from the old version of OS X that the ATV1 OS was derived from.

Yes it is, but with respect.
Has that stopped the device from streaming music to older atv systems? How do you think the devices handshake when they stream the music? It's still the all new A4 chip communicating with the much older Intel processor. How do you think it will communicate with third party peripherals? I bet you it's not because all the new gear will be running iOS or have their own A4 chips installed.
Why do you think can stream the music but not the video? Is it that much more complex to stream the video? I can answer that, it's not. It needs a nice fast processor to make sure there's no hiccups in the stream, but all it's pushing is compressed data. And that data isn't encoded in some special manner that's unique to iOS devices.

The ATV1 and ATV2 use incompatible hardware and software. Upgrading the ATV1 to the same level as the ATV2, if it's even possible, would require a development project that would be unprecedented for a legacy device running legacy software. I just don't see it happening.

Unprecedented like the way that Apple supported the Classic environment when it moved it's range up to OSX, or unprecedented in the way it developed Rosetta to make sure that all our old PPC apps still worked on perfectly after upgrading to an Intel machine?

I fully agree, I´ve got the same problem. My MBP and my MacMini cannot stream music to my 1st gen ATV anymore, it worked perfect before. Seems like Apple has a job to do, or they´ll make a lot of their old and (so far) true customers loose their belief in Apple´s products and software.

capaho wrote:
Like many here, you simply don't understand the technology you are arguing about.

Then why don't you explain it? I think many would be very happy to hear why it won't work, including myself.

If you can avoid the catch all 'it's new technology therefore it won't work, or you simply don't understand' I'd be very grateful.

It's not that it won't work but they would have to put time and money into making it compatible. Why would they do that for a discontinued device. They will continue to support it but you won't see any updates.

Furthermore, it is about 4 years old and it still does exactly what it did when you bought it.

I bought the AppleTV1 after Steve Job's announced the streaming to AppleTV (version not specified) feature of the, then pending, iOS4... AppleTV2 wasn't even out yet.

If you recall the new iOS features were announced months before the release as sort of a teaser. And when I was in the corporate store right after this teaser there were stacks of AppleTV1's behind the counter. However I elected to buy a refurb'd one from the online store to save a few bucks.

So... 1. mine was not 4 years old: it was a few months old, and 2. I bought it because of the misleading teaser by Jobs and the teaser that promoted the upcoming features on the website. AppleTV 2 wasn't available then.

Some techies will remember we didn't even know the AppleTV2 was A4 based until after Engadget tore it apart after it became available.

Just because you bought it a few months ago doesn't change the fact of when it was originally released.

Key being Ios, apple tv 1 is based on a version of OSX (10.4)

Message was edited by: vazandrew

royds wrote:
ok, instead of me going through all the forum, threads and web sites which I can't be bothered in doing right at this moment, you tell me where it states that the last update (before it was going to released) would be for the AppleTV 2nd Gen and that the Apple TV 1st Gen wouldnt be supported or updated ??

It might state it on the actual release but NOT before the release !!

Even leaving aside the fact that Steve Jobs's pre-release "work in progress" talks for developers about the features that Apple is hoping to include in a future OS release do not constitute any kind of advertisement or specification, I never heard Jobs say anything that a reasonable person could take to indicate that Airplay would be brought to the original Apple TV. If you think I'm wrong, then quote him and tell me where and in what talk he said it.

capaho wrote:
Like many here, you simply don't understand the technology you are arguing about.

Excuse me, but I think you are the one who is not understanding it, or you're just pretending you're not.

Fact one: AirTunes would stream music on a myriad of equipment, from an iTunes. Those equipment included Airport Express and Apple TV 1. The Airport Express I have is from 2007. AirTunes worked back then.

Fact two: AirPlay (the audio part of it, mind you), works in the same fashion - it even recognizes the Airport Express as a viable mean of streaming audio. The catch here is that now you can stream video too - when the target device is an Apple TV 2 - and from iOS devices, such as an iPhone/iPad.

Essentially, same service, same protocol, with added functionality. I would be ok if AirPlay with the old Apple TV wouldn't support video. What I'm not ok about the whole thing is that the newer service, which worked out of the box with older hardware (I don't remember any upgrade on the Airport Express to make it AirPlay compatible - again - it's just a new name for an old-but-spiced-up service) wouldn't be supported on another hardware that was actually newer and even more adequate for that job.

Now, enlighten us, if you will, on how different the AirPlay - again, I'm talking about the audio stream part of it - is from the good ol' AirTunes, and I'll rest my case. The only difference, in fact, is that it can be used to stream stuff from iOS devices - which clearly is not a change on the service itself, but on the iOS being AirTunes capable.

Now, enlighten us, if you will, on how different the AirPlay - again, I'm talking about the audio stream part of it - is from the good ol' AirTunes, and I'll rest my case.

Enlightenment requires freeing oneself from erroneous beliefs. You seem to think that AirTunes and AirPlay are the same simply because they both facilitate audio streams. That is precisely why I said you don't understand the technology you are arguing about.

The ATV1 software would require an upgrade to support AirPlay (assuming the ATV1 hardware can support it), and I just don't see that happening for a device that's been obsoleted (as I've said dozens of times before).