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Will OSX Lion still support FCP Studio?

With the disaster that FCP X is turning out to be, is there any indication as to whether or not any versions of FCP Studio will still work with OS X Lion? I have a sneaking suspicion that it will not, considering the approach Apple has taken with the FCP X release, but I haven't heard anything definitive yet. I'm hoping Apple will come out with some kind of statement regarding FCP X soon, because the way this release has been handled is absolutely bizzare. If there is no intention of continuing to support the professional community, just say so, and everyone can move on to something else.

Final Cut Pro 7, Mac OS X (10.6.7)

Posted on Jun 22, 2011 11:06 AM

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217 replies

Dec 18, 2011 5:26 AM in response to the black sun

Apple is clearly no longer interested in the Film and Broadcast community. They'll make more profit positioning the price of FCPX, as they have, for the broader community who are shooting video on everything from iPhones, iPads compact digital still cameras, DSLRS, handycams etc. They've leveraged to Final Cut Pro name because they can and it helps sell it to the market they are targeting.


It's a great piece of software for that market where you can ingest, edit, color correct and output your video.


Its not a wonderful tool for editors who are used to outputting for downstream processing in dedicated color correction facilities, audio post rooms, unless you have Automatic Duck, and GFX. It just doesn't play well with other software and nor, at the moment, is it targeted to do that.


It's no use complaining to Apple that it doesn't as I believe they have their strategy set, losing 20,000 or so broadcast and film editors worldwideas buyers doesn't equate to gaining millions of potential home and semipro users.


The simple facts are that most broadcast and film editors will stick with FCP7 until suuch time as it is no longer a vialble alternative and probably before then have done their homeowrk on the alternatives.


ABC TV (National Public Broadcaster) here in Australia use FCP7 and will stick with it until they need to update their hardware/software and make their choices then. They changed from AVID on PCs about three ad a half years ago to FCP and that would give them about three and a half years till they have to purchase new hardware and software, based on a typical 7 year asset cycle. Unless there's some radical rethink by Apple in the meantime my guess is it won't be FCPanything or Apple computers.


As I don't work for ABC but run my own small production facility I look at FCPX from a different point of view.

My main concern is that I have repeat clients who want to reversion existing product, edited in FCP6 and 7.

I can't do that with FCPX. However I also use other software to finish my videos, like ProTools, After Effects etc and there isn't a simple path betwen FCPX and other software, even using AD to export the audio is a much less usefull process than it was in FCP7 causing more time wasted moving audio tracks around so that they can be dealt with in sensibly ProTools.


I could start new projects in FCPX and then keep FCP7 around for the old stuff or just jump to Premiere which can import FCP7 XMLs. I have all three programs and so far I'm sticking with FCP7 until I see FCPX either improve to the point where I would want to use it or the speed of FCP7 becomes a real disadvantage. That decision for me will also come back to being able to use other software downstream of my editing software, whatever it happens to be, and FCPX just isn't there with that interactivity now. Perhaps the much vaunted improvements to XML export will change that, in the meantime I've got to earn a living.


So is FCPX a leap forward in editing software, in many ways yes. But the question is really which market is FCPX aimed at and in my opinion, and most of the film and broadcast professionals I know, the answer is simply not them as the basic toolsets they require for interaction with others in their industry just aren't currently there.

Dec 18, 2011 6:52 AM in response to Stephen Hope1

Nice to hear from you Stephen but... theres a couple of things I'de like to point out in your missive:


Apple is clearly no longer interested in the Film and Broadcast community. They'll make more profit positioning the price of FCPX, as they have, for the broader community who are shooting video on everything from iPhones, iPads compact digital still cameras, DSLRS, handycams etc. They've leveraged to Final Cut Pro name because they can and it helps sell it to the market they are targeting.


Doesn't FCPX allow the use of 4k in the 'timeline'? Surely an iPhone can't shoot that resolution can it? 😁



losing 20,000 or so broadcast and film editors worldwide



not quite sure where this 'fact' has appeared from; could you elucidate?



Unless there's some radical rethink by Apple in the meantime my guess is it won't be FCPanything or Apple computers.


thats a brave assumption even Nostrodamus would have balked at!



My main concern is that I have repeat clients who want to reversion existing product, edited in FCP6 and 7.

I can't do that with FCPX.



CatDV anyone?



However I also use other software to finish my videos, like ProTools, After Effects etc and there isn't a simple path betwen FCPX and other software, even using AD to export the audio is a much less usefull process than it was in FCP7 causing more time wasted moving audio tracks around so that they can be dealt with in sensibly ProTools.


... was there ever a 'simple' path?



Stephen take a peek over at your fellow countrymans site you might find it interesting...


http://www.philiphodgetts.com/

Dec 18, 2011 9:31 AM in response to the black sun

>Doesn't FCPX allow the use of 4k in the 'timeline'? Surely an iPhone can't shoot that resolution can it? 😁


Good, now we know you are sarcastic. Because FCP used to be the leader when it came to RED and ALEXA. Cameras that shot 4K. Now? Nope...gone. Doesn't work with RED.


losing 20,000 or so broadcast and film editors worldwide



>not quite sure where this 'fact' has appeared from; could you elucidate?


I work in Hollywood, in th broadcast and film industry. And I can tell you, for a fact, that NO ONE is considering FCX for broadcast TV or Feature film work. They/we are sticking with FCP 7, and going back to Avid. FCX does not offer the tools we need to get the work we need done. Period. So we won't use it.



RE: editing something done with FCP 6 and 7....

>CatDV anyone?


AH, yes, let's go out and buy third party software to convert...not fully, not perfectly...previous projects into FCX. Great idea! 🙂 The obvious option here is to keep a copy of FCP 7, and a machine to run it on.


However I also use other software to finish my videos, like ProTools, After Effects etc and there isn't a simple path betwen FCPX and other software, even using AD to export the audio is a much less usefull process than it was in FCP7 causing more time wasted moving audio tracks around so that they can be dealt with in sensibly ProTools.


>... was there ever a 'simple' path?


YUP! EDL to people with AE if they wanted to capture from the tapes. OMF to ProTools for audio (not an option in FCX...nor is EDL, as Patrick pointed out). FCP 7 offers many simple ways to work within the broadcast workflows we need. I use them daily. FCX...nope. Closed ecosystem. Reliant on third parties to do half-@$$ed things to get stuff partially exported.


Whatever. FCX is a tool. A tool most of us can no longer use, but is one that others can. We are moving on. But still feel slighted by a company that was committed to us, then suddenly was not.

Dec 18, 2011 10:00 AM in response to Shane Ross

As ever Shane you ride to the rescue (I'm being sarcastic there)...


Is it Apples or REDs fault that FCPX don't talk? I don't know the answer to that one, do you?


I didn't know you speak for the whole of Hollywood; I'll know better next time (I'me being sarcastic again Shane!).

So NO ONE WILL EVER USE FCPX in Hollywood, period? Get real (not being sarcastic).


I'll keep FCP7 as well. I thought that fact would be bloody obvious to anybody... (no sarcasm intended).

Didn't Automatic Duck produce a third-party product you all used, and then, Adobe made them EOL it?


I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely Shane; the spiteful, jilted lover, tries to get his own back. It never works Don Quixote...

Dec 18, 2011 10:32 AM in response to the black sun

the black sun wrote:


I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely Shane; the spiteful, jilted lover, tries to get his own back. It never works Don Quixote...

😁 I appreciate your view immensely but I don't think jilted lover is the best metaphor.


Out here, we're left with reading the tea leaves for the changes looming over the horizon. I recall that Jobs once said "We've been trying to get rid of the file system for ten years." And he was clear not long ago, that BD would not be supported on the Mac because online formats is where the market is going, just like it did with music. The plastic DVD/BD format is dying.


These changes present enormous challenges and opportunities for us. FCPX makes perfect sense if you look at the bigger picture. Broadcast is digitial, bandwidth is widening, internet service is provided just about everywhere. Editing a 4K RED full length feature is not practical on a single desktop. In fact, when 4K was first used, I don't think there was ANY editing suite available to manage it - it had to be down-res'd. (I could be wrong about that, but anyway...)


Our initial challenge is to get over our vanity - wanting things to remain as they are. And try to wrap our heads around where we fit into these inevitable changes. We're trying to hold on to the past and we'll be left behind if we don't let go of what we think we know. We claim we don't fear change, but the fact is, we do, and for good reason. These changes threaten our livelihoods. Still, the changes are coming - they're here already.


Just my take.


Paco

Dec 18, 2011 10:48 AM in response to RogerOut

Thanks Paco, and for the most part, I agree with you. I wish Apple had done things differently, but... And thats the whole rub of the matter. Things are what they are, like it or not.


Must disagree on the 'jilted lover' bit though - I think its perfect. If its not Shane then its Rich Harrington, who's outbursts have been nothing short of laughable. And don't get me started on Walter Biscardi... If they had any sense they would have taken a lead from Robbie Carman and just jumped ship; that for me would have spoken volumes.

Dec 18, 2011 11:29 AM in response to the black sun

>Is it Apples or REDs fault that FCPX don't talk? I don't know the answer to that one, do you?


Apple. SInce they no longer support import of that format. They did with FCP 7. They don't with FCX.


>So NO ONE WILL EVER USE FCPX in Hollywood, period? Get real (not being sarcastic).


Currently? I doubt it. You might find a handful of people that will, but it will never see the userbase that FCP 7 had. It was poised to kill Avid and take over the town. Now? You'll find a few people use it, but no where near what it was. And on a feature? No way. The pioneer for FCP in features (Walter Murch) looked at it, and said no thanks.


>Didn't Automatic Duck produce a third-party product you all used, and then, Adobe made them EOL it?


If we needed to go from FCP to Avid, or Avid to FCP...yes. And now that it is EOL, it is free. And they work fine with the Legacy FCP. But they will eventually no longer be needed as people move away from FCP to Avid. Or go to Adobe.


> If they had any sense they would have taken a lead from Robbie Carman and just jumped ship; that for me would have spoken volumes.


I am jumping ships. I'm going Avid. I still use FCP at my job because that is what is there. And what will be there for a couple years, until it is no longer useful. But on all my new side projects, I am all Avid.

Dec 18, 2011 12:31 PM in response to the black sun

Ok, Sun, I'm with you on jilted lover, was just trying to insert some rational thoughts. 😁 Hard to be rational the way Apple "managed" things in this regard.


Anyway, we'll be using FCS 2/3 for our next feature film, then after that? Who knows. We'll decide when we have to. In the meantime, will just lurk about and see what happens with FCPX.


Paco

Dec 18, 2011 2:17 PM in response to the black sun

Black Sun


Nostradamus... no just simply inside information from the people who will make that decision. This is their current attitude to FCPX... it will need to evolve radically to meet their needs to change their minds... I did preface my original statement to that effect. But of course you wouldn't have any idea of who my friends and colleagues are not being Nostradamus yourself.


The paths out of FCP7 are relatively simple as has been pointed out I use them daily without any drama and don't need third party Apps to do so.


As for the 20,000 editors it was an estimate on another forum of those currently using FCP7 for broadcast and film work most of whom, unless they can live with 'quick and dirty' exports from their timeline for the final product, will eventually have no alternative but to choose another NLE when FCP7 no longer 'cuts' it.


Somehow this thread seems to have warpped from rational discussion about whether FCPX STUDIO would run in Lion, which it does, to 'if you don't love FCPX you must be an Apple hater'. Life isn't that black and white I've owned Apple computers since 1984, and just added a new MacBook Pro to the collection along with the Mac Pro that is my editing platform and just about every 'i' gadget Apple produces. I'm certainly not in the haters camp I just don't love FCPX because it doesn't suit my business workflow and yes I've tried to make it fit.


I'm commenting from my experience of FCPX and the way it currently 'works' even apologists like Larry Jordon have admitted its shortcomings in their blogs while making a fortune selling their training material. That's fine for them and the market FCPX suits.


Unfortunately, and I do mean unfortunately, it doesn't currently suit me or my colleagues in film and broadcast as a day to day tool.

Dec 19, 2011 4:49 AM in response to Shane Ross

Apple. SInce they no longer support import of that format. They did with FCP 7. They don't with FCX.


Nothing to do with the new version of xml Apple use then? I always thought it took 2 to tango...




Currently? I doubt it. You might find a handful of people that will, but it will never see the userbase that FCP 7 had. It was poised to kill Avid and take over the town. Now? You'll find a few people use it, but no where near what it was. And on a feature? No way. The pioneer for FCP in features (Walter Murch) looked at it, and said no thanks.


FCPX may see the same userbase as FCP7 does. We don't know do we?

Did FCP/X have to 'kill' Avid to succeed; I don't think so, And I find your chose of words strange.

AMC, any version, still looks like ***** compared to FCPX, and as for features, hold your horses my dear, thats the cavalry I hear comming over the hill 😁.

To say that you have misrepresented Walter Murch is an understatement. A couple of weeks a go, in an interview, he clearly stated that he was going to take a look at FCPX sometime this month. So if you know something we don't, pray tell...

Dec 19, 2011 4:46 AM in response to Stephen Hope1

Neither of us are Nostradamus!


Surely 20,000 is a 'guesstimate'?


I thought we were having a 'rational' discussion? If people don't like FCPX for 'rational' decisions I don't have a problem with that, its the 'irrational' decisions that bother me. 😉


I wouldn't call Larry Jordan an 'apologist', I thought he'd been quite open and honest, unlike others.

Dec 19, 2011 5:06 AM in response to the black sun

Neither of us are Nostradamus!


I never claimed to be...


Surely 20,000 is a 'guesstimate'?


estimate, guesstimate, shmesstimate ... it's a ballpark figure the point being a relatively small broadcast and film user base compared to the potential home and semi-pro... but then you knew what I was getting at.


I thought we were having a 'rational' discussion? If people don't like FCPX for 'rational' decisions I don't have a problem with that, its the 'irrational' decisions that bother me. 😉


"Everyone here is irrational except you and I and lately I've been wondering about you..."


I wouldn't call Larry Jordan an 'apologist', I thought he'd been quite open and honest, unlike others.


I use the term because before FCPX was released publicly there was nothing but good news from those who had pre-release knowledge of it. I think the sentiment was way beyond a non-disclosure contract. Larry was a little late coming to the party admitting FCPX's shortcomings though he did correct that.


Anyway this thread has degenerated into little more than 'trolling' so I'll drop it off my email list and see you in some other space. I have money to earn editing which is why I'm still on my system at midnight.


Enjoy your Christmas

Will OSX Lion still support FCP Studio?

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