I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?
Pages-OTHER, Mac OS X (10.7)
elol wrote:
Yvan? what is your job ? I know you were a potter. What business experience do you bring to the discussion list here??? I would like to know how to evaluate and consider what you say.
I studied to become "Ingénieur des Ponts et Chaussées".
When I graduated, I worked a few years upon several buildings.
In july 1971 I resigned and entered the pottery workshop of my wife's family.
Some years after I bought my first computer : an ITT2020, an authorized clone of Apple ][.
I replaced it soon by an Apple //e then by an Apple //gs.
I built three consecutive French versions of GS OS the operating system of this late machine because Apple France refused to do that.
I built also the French version of AppleWorks GS. Claris was so impressed by my work that I was allow to distribute it commercially.
After that, Apple (ruled by Steve Jobs) dropped the Apple //gs. I spent so many hours about this machine that I decided that I will no more try to fight against machines evolution.
I decided too to stop computer programming.
I bought a mac and behaved with it as a standard user.
Some years later, I learnt AppleScript which allowed me to give complementary features to AppleWorks (the mac version).
I was asked by Apple to beta test the late three revisions of AppleWorks 6.
During these years, I used AppleWorks for numerous tasks related to my workshop.
I retired in december 2003.
Later, I bought iWork 6 and reported a lot of oddities to Apple.
When iWork '08 was delivered, I was asked by Apple to study the French version (the localized version wasn't tested before delivery).
I filed a lot of reports. Some were treated, some are always open.
I bought iWork '09 and continued to study it in depth to be able to use it efficiently for tasks related to the history of the family workshop.
Starting from AppleWorks ones, I entered several discussions forums to give other users the benefit of my knowledge of the apps.
I no longer count the number of users documents which I revived after corruptions of different kinds.
I never gave details about the techniques used in my workshop so I will not give more details about what I do with iWork apps. Just know that I push Pages and Numbers near their technical limits.
The common description of my status is : power user.
I'm aware of what may be done with Pages, Numbers and Preview. I know TextEdit but certainly not so deeply than the three others. Of course, I use them as well as the Script Editor every day.
Given the number of messages from users crying because they lost their datas, I delivered an AutoSave script applying to iWork applications.
I already wrote that quite since the beginning I decided that creating documents starting from standard ones was bad practice. I never explained why.
At the true beginning I worked like you. I created new invoice or new administrative document sttarting from an existing document of this kind.
One day I received a phone call from a customer claiming that my invoice was wrong, and it really was. I discovered quickly that given a bug in AppleWorks, when a spreadsheet was edited several times, internal poiners became corrupted putting autocalculation on strike and so, some multiplications were posted with results belonging to the old document. Same problem an other day with an administrative document relative to taxes. Such cases are really boring and as I knew the cause, I decided that if would no longer strike on me. After that, I saved every document supposed to be used as a starting point as a template (stationary for Preview or TextEdit). I perfectly know that we may work an other way but, given the described problem, I refuse to use this other scheme..
Given that, when I learnt that Lion was introducing AutoSave and Versions, I was satisfied.
When I discovered that Save As was gone I was surprised but had no specific advice about that except the fact that it was not a problem for my own practice.
Then, since Lion delivery I work with the now standard workflow and I'm really at ease with it.
I didn't wrote « perfectly at ease » because I dislike the fact to be forced to save once by hand to ger AutoSave working. Mountain Lion enhance that. When we create a new doc, the system/application automatically save it with a standard name in a standard location. We may set the wanted name/location immediately or when the doc is ready to use : perfect design, perfect workflow.
To answer your late question, I worked a few years in a huge company. Given my signature, it's easy to guess that I was not satisfied in such environment. It's why I resigned to work with no both except the clay which I was using.
As I already wrote, customers were free to select the object of their choice and to pay it.
Every attempt to tell me that it would be fine to change this or that ended with the churl to be firmly pushed to the exit (sometimes they were kicked off).
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
Ni dieu, ni maître !
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
Dennis Burnham wrote:
You reply that in Mountain Lion, the program Script Editor will behave without the SAVE AS menu command.
Am I missing something Yvan, or did you just give us another of your deflective non-responses?
As far as I know, when I write something it's that I'm really aware of it.
Trust me or don't, I repeat : in the existing versions of Mountain Lion, Script Editor has no Save As menu item. Some betatesters are unfair enough to put beta versions in torrents so it's easy to see that
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
Hi:
Yvan. thank you
I respect you for that answer and for what you have obviously accomplished with your work.
However as you said the world must move on.... and so will those of us who do not like what is happening
Please respect us for wanting some options that we can live with.
We have never asked for the changes to be removed.
Only that we be provided with a choice
As an apple evangilist you should inform apple that there is serious concerns from some business users about the new environment. That is what they would expect from you and it is very important that they hear this.
Even though you do not agree with us.
cheers elo
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
Trust me or don't, I repeat : in the existing versions of Mountain Lion, Script Editor has no Save As menu item. Some betatesters are unfair enough to put beta versions in torrents so it's easy to see that
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
So in other words, you tattle to Apple when someone "breaks the rules" with a feature you personally don't like (despite its usefulness to a great many other people).
But when it suits you, you have no problem with "breaking the rules" by obtaining Apple software illegally.
Nice.
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
Every attempt to tell me that it would be fine to change this or that ended with the churl to be firmly pushed to the exit (sometimes they were kicked off).
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
Ni dieu, ni maître !
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
How interesting to read your credentials. I'm sure it gives you good reason to be proud of the many accomplishments in your career.
I was not familiar with the term "churl" so I looked it up. The synonyms, in English, are: bumpkin, hick, clodhopper, cornball, hayseed, hillbiily, yokel, among other derogarory words. That is consistent with your view of those who disagree with you here, as you would have been trying to push us, one by one, to the exit with your self-righteous declarations of your wisdom and clairvoyance.
Well, I don't consider myself a churl, and I will not be pushed so easily to the exit. This is an Apple discussion board, not your private enterprise or pottery shop. However, if I ever have the misfortune of arriving in your pottery shop, rest assured you will not have to escort me to an exit because I will see myself out, without your help.
While here in the discussion about SAVE AS, you will just have to put up with churls like me. Of course, the door swings both ways, and you may exit at any time you choose to do so.
I wrote that the betas are available thru torrents. I didn't wrote that I used such feature.
In fact I don't know the way to use torrents.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
I couldn't care less about what is in the torrents or the betas. I don't plan on wasting my time looking at either a beta or a torrent. If Apple were to engage with me to do so, I would charge for my time and give them their money's worth in a clearly written opinion.
Instead, I prefer to wait for the actual release of Mountain Lion, whenever that may be, and devote as much energy as I can reaasonably afford prior to its release by persuading others of a like mind to join me in pleading with Apple to correct the mistake they made by removing an important user interface feature.
To reiterate what a chorus of others are saying, we do not expect or ask for the new Versions method to be removed. We only want the CHOICE.
This discussion group, if it is indeed monitored by Apple support personnel or systems engineers (as they tell us it is) is the recommended way to communicate our feedback to the company. Since those who are asking for SAVE AS to be restored as an option, your contrary points of view do not help the matter, you do not contribute anything positive to the discussion, and you only weaken the thrust of the requests by making an argumentative thread more difficult for Apple employees to understand. If it is your goal to reduce the impact of our collective request and frustrate Macintosh users who do not agree with you, then you are doing a skillful job of it. If that is not your intent, you should consider how you are doing a disservice to all, and your silence would be very much appreciated.
Just because a restaurant creates a no-smoking section does not mean that everyone who does not want to sit in it must also begin smoking. They have a choice about where to sit, and if they choose to sit in the smoking section, they know what to expect but they are not obligated to light up a cigarette or cigar.
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
I wrote that the betas are available thru torrents. I didn't wrote that I used such feature.
In fact I don't know the way to use torrents.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
Your statement was:
"Trust me or don't, I repeat : in the existing versions of Mountain Lion, Script Editor has no Save As menu item. Some betatesters are unfair enough to put beta versions in torrents so it's easy to see that"
You make an extremely affirmative statement. You write, "It's easy to see that."
Those who are a part of the Apple Developer Program or who otherwise engage in beta testing for Apple agree to a strict non-disclosure clause.
One way or the other, you have come by your knowledge by engaging in shady activity that is clearly against Apple's "rules." If you truly believed in those rules, you would have nothing to do with websites or individuals who violate them in this way.
So once again, you invoke the "rules" when it suits you, and ignore them when it's to your advantage.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me.
Just for the record, Yvan is a Mountain Lion beta tester. While he of course is not allowed to reveal anything about the OS itself, I don't think just saying you are part of the group is any kind of violation of the NDA.
As for torrents, he was only mentioning they exist. When I was a beta tester for Snow Leopard, it never failed that a new build would be on these sites in less that 12 hours. Sometimes as fast as a couple hours.
Dennis Burnham wrote:
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
Every attempt to tell me that it would be fine to change this or that ended with the churl to be firmly pushed to the exit (sometimes they were kicked off).
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
Ni dieu, ni maître !
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
How interesting to read your credentials. I'm sure it gives you good reason to be proud of the many accomplishments in your career.
I was not familiar with the term "churl" so I looked it up. The synonyms, in English, are: bumpkin, hick, clodhopper, cornball, hayseed, hillbiily, yokel, among other derogarory words. That is consistent with your view of those who disagree with you here, as you would have been trying to push us, one by one, to the exit with your self-righteous declarations of your wisdom and clairvoyance.
Nothing common between churl asking me to make changes to my own creations and peoples writing here. You aren't speaking about my works so your comments aren't my problem.
What you don't understand is that you aren't the owner of this thread.
So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.
As far as I know, I'm polite so nothing is wrong in my messages.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
Ni dieu, ni maître !
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
Well, I am in no position to judge who should or should not be beta testers, and maybe one of the qualifications to have that honor is to be the kind of personality type that is intolerant of others' points of view. That is to say, maybe the process of beta-testing software requires a certain kind of dedicated focus that is undistracted by the kind of variables that exist in the world of "opinion."
On the other hand, someone in his position might also be able to say to the people in this thread, instead of arguing wiht us: "I am in no position to commit to anything on behalf of the company, but I have observed that there are a great many users who feel disadvantaged by the removal of the Save As command, and I will do you all the courtesy of respecting your time and thoughtful input by passing that along to the company as part of my beta-testing work. Even though I don't agree with you, I consider it my responsibility to let the company know what others are saying about the current Lion product in case they may decide to use your collective feedback and include the requested change in Mountain Lion."
Would that be asking too much?
I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.
It's exactly what I do.
You are free to express your opinion, I'm free to express mine, no less no more.
If there is a problem, it's not between you and me. It may be between the moderators and me.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.
It's exactly what I do.
No need to comment any further...this speaks for itself.
But I'll play along. What is it, exactly, Yvan, that I "refuse to understand"? Please be specific.
I refused to test operating system features. There are a lot of guys more competent than me to do that. I check only the French localization which means good wording, spelling and grammar.
It's sufficient for a gratuitous action. My reward would be to be able to work with apps without beeing hurted by bad wording, spelling or grammar.
Same thing when I help users to solve their problems. No money involved. I'm just glad when I receive the mails sent by Apple saying "Congratulations, your post has helped xyz" or "Congratulations, your post has solved wxc's question."
Making money was always far from being the most important thing in my life. I know, I'm a coelacanthus.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
DChord568 wrote:
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.
KOENIG Yvan wrote:
I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.
It's exactly what I do.
No need to comment any further...this speaks for itself.
But I'll play along. What is it, exactly, Yvan, that I "refuse to understand"? Please be specific.
The removal of Save AS, the introduction of AutoSave, the introduction of Versions as features that we can't disable.
I will not discuss of that. You know my advice, I know yours.
These features are implemented this way. Period.
Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012
iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3
My Box account is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k
What happened to Save As?
