What happened to Save As?

DChord568... you gave an excellent response to Sheepdog.

I'll simply add that for Sheepdog to jump in to a 50+ page thread with 'THE ANSWER'' in one post, for ALL of us, shows an _incredible_ degree of arrogance.

This is typical of posters that are trolls... which is why I characterized SD as such.

There are issues that even a newbie should realize that a 50+ page thread are dealing with that one answer would not resolve and that it does not require a technician to realize this.

For you Sheepdog to think that our responses were "childish" again shows your arrogance.

At worst our responses might have been characterized as over reacting to your ignorance of the problem while your thinking... 'How dumb are these Mac users that they can't figure this out?'

But then I rather doubt that, as DChord568 has stated, that you would 'get it' no matter how balanced our reponses would have been since you obviously thought you could solve all of our concerns with one post.

I would like to help this thread get to 60 pages.

I am totally disgusted by ML. What a load of rubbish. No easy way to do a find-by-file-name search, ie. we have lost command-shift-F. And now this autosave/versions nonsense. I am sticking with SL but the tragedy is that my new Air does not support it.

On the Air, L and ML are just a waste of a good piece of hardware.

IOS does not really have files therefore no filenames as you know it today.. scary.....

that is what I believe.

secondly if you search for a file on osx how will it handle the multitude of versions, the cloud and the ones on your other computers. etc.???

cheers elo

Donnie Ashworth wrote:

No search by file name or command-shift-f? 😮 You've got to be kidding. Why on earth did they remove that??

I can't in my wildest dreams imagine why. If I know that I have a file somewhere with a specific word or words in the file name, then why on earth would I want to be presented with a list of every freaking file on my computer that happens to have that word in its contents? Then I have to scroll down this monster list to find the one file I'm looking for.

I thought the Apple experience was supposed to make it easy and quick for the user. What's easier and quicker, finding one file among 10 or so, or one file among 300?

Another Mountain Lion gripe: you no longer get feedback in the form of the spinning gear wheel when Mail is bringing in new mail. You have to guess when all of your new mail has finally arrived.

To try to keep this marginally on-topic, what I really would love to do is to get the Apple design team in a room and have them expain, in their own words, exactly WHY decisions such as these (and of course, the loss of Save As) were made.

Seriously, I want them to say out loud "Well, our thinking was that…."

There are two reasons for this. One is that people try to emulate Steve Jobs without understanding what he really stood for. They think he wanted less features. That was never the case. He wanted a simplified user experience not simple products. Secondly some people, usually managers, need to stamp their authority on a situation. They can only do this by changing things from what they are to something else. Steve Jobs didn't need to do this. If something worked he left it the same. That choice is not available to the new Apple management that try to justify their salaries. Thus they change things that work perfectly for no obvious reason. The vacuum left by Steve Jobs will only get bigger.

No search by file name or command-shift-f? 😮 You've got to be kidding. Why on earth did they remove that??

I can't in my wildest dreams imagine why. I

It is worse than you think. In OS9.2 and all preceding systems command-F gave you a find by file name search. In 10.0 to 10.3 it was absent and you had to use the mouse and a drop down menu to get find by name, just as you do currently in Lion and ML. Find by file name returned in 10.4 under the command-shift-F command. Even then it was not implemented properly and there was no cursor in the dialog box to let you know you had successfully issued the command. In 10.5 the cursor came back. Things went well all through 10.6 and now the idiots have broken their interface again.

At the risk of repeating myself... the developers don't use their own products.

I just realized I am contributing to the Numbers forum, sorry. This thread should be moved to the ML forum. But to return to the topic:

"Save as..." OVERWRITES THE ORIGINAL FILE!!!!!!!!!

Uuugggghh!

BTW, I did the OSX feedback thing and included a link to this 'discussion.' I would urge everybody who reads this to do the same. We did manage to get find-by-file-name back the last time they got rid of it, so there is hope for save as and versions.

Steve Maximus wrote:

...some people, usually managers, need to stamp their authority on a situation. They can only do this by changing things from what they are to something else.

I've felt this to be the case with OS X for some time. To me, the OS matured some time back, and now the designers seem to be in a cycle of either adding new features to correct problems that don't exist or removing needed elements just for the sake of creating a new version.

I'm glad to be seeing some agreement on these issues.

I mean really...I want to find a Mac user anywhere who says:

"Whew, I'm really glad I have to scroll through a list of 300 irrelevent files in order to find the one with the key word in its file name that I wanted to find. Thanks, Apple!"

"Whew, I'm really glad I don't have any idea of when all of my new email has arrived now. Thanks, Apple!"

"Whew, I'm really glad I have to go through six steps with Duplicate instead of two steps with Save As in order to accomplish the same thing. Thank goodness those bad old days are behind us!"

Is this what the designers are imagining Mac users worldwide are saying, now that they've worked their magic?

Yes, all these things seem to be part of a distressing trend. For me, it began back in Leopard (I believe?) with the seemingly arbitrary taking away of hierarchical dock folder navigation to replace it with "Stacks". Since then, we've had any number of things in subsequent versions that just don't make sense, and the trend seems to be accelerating.

The core difference between Windows and the Mac OS has always been Apple's intuitive, intelligent, well thought-out design that anticipates the needs of the user rather than fighting the user or getting in his way. This difference seems to be vanishing…

Having looked at the Microsoft Surface website it is amazingly clean and simple and intuitive. Maybe Microsoft have woken up to what made Apple great and maybe they will make a fight back. If Microsoft become intuitive and Apple become arrogant and complicated then they will go back to bankruptcy as they did the last time Steve Jobs left. I am looking for an alternative now. I am waiting for Windows 8 and the Surface. I am holding back on buying a new laptop becuse I want to see what Microsoft does. When I became an Apple user almost 5 years ago I never imagined this day happening. A single philosophical change in the leadership of a company affects everything that it does. Sadly I believe that Apple has changed in a way that I will not choose in the future. I see a company with products nobody wants to buy in expensive Apple stores all over the world. That is a recipe for bankruptcy. These things take time maybe 5 years from now if the current trend continues. People will write university case studies about Apple and how one small problem multiplied into many small problems until people turned to something else. It is just a question of when that something else becomes clear. Maybe Android through Google? Maybe Microsoft 8? Maybe Ray Ozzie is secretly building something? Only time will tell. In sailing when the sail flutters slightly this is an indication that it may be time to tack. The smallest hints can indicate the beginning of the biggest changes. Apple will either fix this problem or this will be remembered as the beginning of the end. It really depends on whether the management care enough about the company that they didn't start in their garage. It may be a good time to buy Apple products while they are not completely screwed up. Just a thought.

I haven't seen Surface yet (and I must say I am not much interested in it). I gave a try to Win8 but it ***** (IMHO).

I bought a Samsung Galaxy to replace my wife's iPhones and it has nothing less than the iPhone. The only thumb down is the battery life (I have to charge it daily).

I do not plan to buy a computer shortly, but in case I find that Apple is still better than Windows, although Linux is getting closer to Apple... and Linux is already well established at my place.

I would suggest you try Android in addition to Surface.

As a protest I propose to put a sticker over the apple logo on both of my laptops. I happened to notice the characters did this on the Big Bang Theory sitcom.

In any case, the Apple logo is kind of boastful, and makes most people think 'tosser'. It is also a weak spot. I dropped my phone from 6 inches and the corner hit the Apple logo and cracked the screen behind. I don't like paying for froth, either in the hardware or the OS.

Stefano67, thanks for the feedback. My point is that I will look at the Surface. 12 months ago if Microsoft offered a free tablet and laptop I would not have even looked at it. I was just happy with Apple. My time is more valuable than the cost of the hardware and Apple saved me time when Microsoft cost me time. Now I have to spend time on Lion work arounds to solve Apple created workflow issues. That takes my time. So now I am looking elsewhere. Even if Apple is currently better I fear for the future. Apple did great work winning new customers. It can lose them just as easily. As soon as there is a better alternative I will move. 12 months ago I would not have looked at another operating system. Linux? Android? Windows 8? The point is that a captive client has become a dissatisfied client. This forum has over 23 thousand views. I was on another that had 67 thousand views. This is not a small percentage of the users. This is a big number of people looking for an answer. As soon as there is an answer people will change. Apple cannot afford that.

elol wrote:

Interesting article on the subject of this thread....

http://macperformanceguide.com/MountainLion-SaveAs-data-destruction.html

cheers elo

Also some interesting discussion below the article. Thanks for posting.