Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

I have had the same problem. I was working on my music using a MBP from 2009 with only 8GB of memory running in Snow Leopard. Playback was fine there but I hit the memory ceiling, so just purchased a 12-core 2.44Ghz Mac Pro with 25GB of memory and found that unfortunately I was FORCED to upgrade to Mountain Lion since the new Mac Pro doesn't have firmware that will accommodate Snow Leopard. Right away I found the same exact problem. At first I thought it was a 32-bit bridge issue. Also my first song had instances of Abbey Road Brilliance Pack and TG Mastering plugins that aren't support. So I removed them both from the project and the computer and restarted. Same problem. It lags, in my case when fiddling with the Channel EQ during playback. Also the graphic elements of the EQ were screwed up - the little balls that indicate each band, and which you need to highlight to open their filtering, were no longer showing up.

My system is as follows:

Mac Pro 2.44 Ghz 12-core, 24GB memory, internal SSD and two SATA drives

10.8.1

Logic Pro 9.1.7

instruments: Kontakt 5, Abbey Road Modern Drums, Trillion, EXS-24

plugins: Waves, Valhalla reverb, a host of Logic effects

Apogee Ensemble

Unitor 8

Korg NanoKontrol is connected, but not in use

Roland A-33 weighted keyboard controller

⚠Same, same here. This is absolutely frustrating. The only saving grace is that I have a midi controller and its transport controls do stop logic when it goes into that 45 second no respose lag. My heart goes out to people who dont have a midi controller and have to sit throught the entire 45 seconds, multiple times, before logic "wakes back up." Uuuug.

Just bought a brand new Mac Pro 3.2 GHz Quad-core with 32MB of RAM running a 1066MHz. Was terrified something was wrong with the computer....then I did a search in the apple support groups...what a mess. I guess apple's working on it. I've certainly submitted feedback to them. Please everyone do the same. Hey, I love to complain on support groups but lets face it - Apple's not going to do much until they're flooded with formal complaints. LET THE FLOODING BEGIN!

Thanks all for the posts. At least it's not my new computer...I guess.😕

Actually, yesterday and the day before I had long conversations with 4 tech support folks, the first three from Professional Apps support, the last from an Engineer. Three of these guys were very helpful and sympathetic, and made me feel confident Apple was on the case. But one of them.... ugh, he treated me like I was a crazy person. When I told him that I was really exhausted by the bugs in Logic, small and large, and this one is kind of a dealbreaker for me, and told him that if Apple hadn't fixed it within 30 days, he said, and I quote: "I've never heard of this problem...""don't expect a snap of the fingers fix." This was INCREDIBLY discouraging. So yes, you are right, we have to flood their tech staff with complaints in order to "expect a snap of the finger", which to me 30 days IS NOT!

I was on the phone today with 5 different apple techs. 5.5 hours of beautiful Sunday trying to get this d**n Lag problem solved. Nothing worked. Created new admn user account. Reinstalled Logic. Took things out of prefs/presets and plugins folders, Put them back in, Deleted third party plug-ins, rebooted with no midi controller or audio interface plugged into the Mac Pro, Stood on one leg and waved a chicken bone and a voodoo doll over the computer. Nothing worked. Finally spoke with a senior member for an hour. She had me run all sorts of trial test, compositions (new and existing), send my computer info to apple AND email her my actual Logic composition files that we used today. Told here the exact composition files "with the problem" didn't matter....It's ANY and ALL working files opened in Logic after the 10.8.2 update. They're "on it" supposedly. But not one of them seemed like they we're aware of this Lag problem. Iritating as **** when these posts (ON AN APPLE DISCUSSION GROUP) go back to July! The lack of attention to this huge problem in Logic baffles me. They just had an update to Mountain Lion 2-3 days ago. Nothing in the details about that update's fixes or tweaks concerning Logic. I've started looking at other DAWs. I mean It's been way too long without a major update, news of an update or even rumours of an update. For at least two years it's as if Logic just keep getting a band-aid slapped on it to keep it...."working."

MadDog15 wrote:

They're "on it" supposedly. But not one of them seemed like they we're aware of this Lag problem.

Well, they can't be on it if they aren't aware of it, can they? :-) "None of them" must refers to rhose who talk with users on the phone, not the actual coders, which of course are aware of it. The 'techs' you spoke with may not have any detailed info about what the coders are working on. Even if Apple would have a really lousy system of forwarding reports about well known issues to the coders (which I'm sure they don't have), they can all read, and this lag thing has been discussed on all Logic forums for some weeks now. It's two months since Mountain Lion was released tomorrow, and my blind guess is that it won't take more than max three months to identify bugs associated with a new OS and fix them. Maybe they even have fixed it or are close to having fixed it, but work on other changes for the next subrelease, so they don't have to hurry up releasing a 9.1.8 soon after 9.1.7. Or maybe this a quarantine period after a fix to check out how successful the changes in the code are.

For at least two years it's as if Logic just keep getting a band-aid slapped on it to keep it...."working."

Did you see the poll on some forum where people were asked what their main wishes for Logic was? "No new features, only stability improvements and bugfixes please" was very high on that list, and that's what they have delivered for a while now.

Logic has had a subrelease-cirka-every-three-months since the L9 release, but it's more than that now, so I'm sure we'll see fix soon. Unfortunatly :-) I got rid of the lag problem by removing some third part drivers (not Logic releated, not plugins, but other-software-related), so I can't experiment to find out what causes it. But even if the problem isn't caused by Logic, people will assume that Logic is the sinner if it appears in Logic, meaning that the Logic team of course takes a break from the Logic X work to address these lag issues, and probably has been doing that for some time.

What we probably can draw from this is that it hasn't ben an easy thing to fix - because if it had, we'd probably all have 9.1.8 already.

ZXC, do you feel that Apple has delivered stability? I'm truly on the edge of leaving Logic for good based on the last few year's experience with Logic. This is very sad for me, because I've built my career using this software. All of my work over the last 12 years has been created using Logic. I have a great many songs in the works that would all have to be converted and reworked. It's a crazy amount of work, but I'm seriously considering it now. Why? Because it seems truly like they have left us in the lurch and truly no one is listening. There are bugs that just never get fixed. I've had a bunch of them, mostly relatively small, but this one is massive and needs to be fixed as soon as humanly possible. Hearing from that one tech support dude that he's "never heard of this issue" and that I should not expect a "snap of the fingers fix" really sucked.

I'm going to start to learn to use another DAW and see how it works on my Mac Pro, just in case. This is bad news for Apple, because Logic Pro being an only Apple-based system is the only thing keeping me with their EXPENSIVE hard ware. Apple really should take a good long look at how their professional customers are feeling. I think there is a very large percentage of users on the audio and visual side (Logic Pro/FCP/former Shake-users) who are really not having it anymore.

Sorry to hear that you have had such a bad day. I've gotten Logic to work very well, despite moments of the lag issue, by keeping live analyser turned off on Channel eq and not having any other windows open that are memory intensive. For example, again, when I tried to record a screen movie with Quicktime this caused an outrageous lag (at least a whole minute!) Same when using plugins that used the 32-bit bridge. You should ditch any plugins that might cause the 32-big bridge to have to open, if you are working in 64-bit mode.

DERN IT APPLE!!! FIX THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And one more thing to ZXC, I DO hold Apple responsible if MAJOR plugins are having problems in Mountain Lion. I mean, Waves??? Native Instruments??? Logic is the main app and should accommodate 3rd party plugins with more ease. Most creative artist are going to use at least one 3rd party instrument. Logic Pro should be open to that kind of usage. It's completely normal usage and should not be so difficult!

Fredo Viola wrote:

ZXC, do you feel that Apple has delivered stability?

...compared with what/whom? After many years of having used Pro Tools HD as my main hardware, I still visit the "DUC" now and then to see how things are going over there, and it's full of dramatic messages about Pro Tools instability, freezes, noise bursts, crashes, muted sound and so forth. So the real question must be: how stable is Logic compared with the competition, in addition to, of course: would the competition (whichever DAW you consider looking at) be as good as Logic is in terms of features and workflow?

Because it seems truly like they have left us in the lurch and truly no one is listening.

Based on various ads for new people to Apple's Logic/pro audio teams in US and Germany and references to quotes from reliable sources, I *know* that you are wrong. I'm 100% sure. What I don't know is if they only plan to keep updating Logic, or if they work both ion improving Logic *and* also are building a new DAW from scratch.

Hearing from that one tech support dude that he's "never heard of this issue" and that I should not expect a "snap of the fingers fix" really sucked.

I could write a book about all the wrong info I've gotten from help/tech/support people. Today I was told that a package I was waiting for from FedEx wouldn't arrive until tomorow at earliest, because it was in another part of the country. While I was in that phone, a FedEx driver left a message on my answering machine telling me that that wre about to deliver that package right now. Don't listen to these guys. :-) Of course th really relevant people in Apple know about this probkem and is working on it.

Apple really should take a good long look at how their professional customers are feeling.

I'm 100% sure they are doing that. They don't deliver a new Mac Pro every year, for obvious reasons. And stability and performace is important for pro users, do they don't rewrite Logic every year or second year either. But that's not only fine, that's great. What they seem to do (based on what we saw in the L8 and L9 releases) is that they spend the time they need to come up with something really good, and deliver it when it's ready. Logic 8 took 3 years, Logic 9 took 2. Maybe Logic 10 takes 4 years? I don't know. But apart from this very special case that some people struggle with. Logic's 3+ year old DAW is still ahead of the competing DAWs' newer versions - in terms of CPU performance, 64-bit, how Logic deals wth complex DAW issues like audio quantizing, beat mapping etc. There are simply no other DAWs, including those who cost a lot more, which are tempting out there.

If I would have the lag problems some people have, and was in a period with heavy deadlines and a lot of work, I'd just buy a $120 hard drive, install Snow Leopard on and boot from SL when I need to use Logic, and promse myslf to not update the OS until at least a month or two after it was released, to avoid 'gamma testing' the OS/Logic combo.

At the same time, I think it would be better for all if Apple would state that some people are having some lag issues with ML and 9.1.7, and that they are working on a solution.

Apple may have the courage to deliver Montain Lion without proper testing with Logic, which may have been a mistake. And if I only know how I made ML and Logic work fine here after having done some tweaks (removing some drivers etc), I would have told you - but I can't.

Move on to some other DAW if you need to, but I'm pretty sure you'll regret it compared with the other options. Like you, I've used Logic 'forever', and it would take me at east a year, probably much more, to become as fluent in another DAW as I am in Logic. Not only that, but IMHO, Apple is doing the right thing (except that there's room for improvement in terms of how/what they communicate with their users): they are taking the time it takes to get somthing ready, and then release it.

Maybe they should have had someone work intensly on ML+ Logoc 9.1.7 before the announced that Logic is ML compatible? Or maybe L9.1.7 actually is ML compatible, unless you use certain printer/graphics etc drivers? I don't know. But I'm sure Apple has been on this for quite some time. If there isn't a published fix by next month, I'll change my mind - but not change my DAW. I don't even have the 9.1.7 + ML problem, so the current Logic version + the current OS version as such may not be the real problem at all.

On another note, I hope they fix the probem with spell checking for Multi-language users like myself. My typos aren't marked red!

Fredo Viola wrote:

And one more thing to ZXC, I DO hold Apple responsible if MAJOR plugins are having problems in Mountain Lion. I mean, Waves??? Native Instruments??? Logic is the main app and should accommodate 3rd party plugins with more ease.

(Wondering why this message is to me? I haven't had to remove any plugins.) If Appple updates the OS, and this means that eg Waves need to update their plugins in order to being M-Lion compatible, one cannot expect that Logic +ML + non-compatible plugs shall work?

Most creative artist are going to use at least one 3rd party instrument. Logic Pro should be open to that kind of usage. It's completely normal usage and should not be so difficult!

If Apple know of a way to increase performance/stability or something else by changing the AudioUnit specs, ProKit, Logic or the OS, they simply need to tell Waves etc what they need to change the plugin code to make them fully compatible with the changes. When a new version if Waves is announced which is copatible with the new OS/Logic/CU requirements, Waves need to tell their customers about this. This isn't complicated, it's called progress. :-)

But if Apple release a new OS, and don't tell 3rd part developers that something has changed, meaning that a new plugin version is needed, something is wrong. My feeling is that nobody had foreseen the problems some people have with ML and Logic and eg the analyzer feature in the Channel EQ. To me, it seems like the main cause of these problems could be 3rd part drivers (not 3rd part plugins), and that Apple now is fixing Logic and the OS to make things work as expected even if the fix ideally should be done in the plugins. But all this is speculation, of course. Let's see in a few weeks how all this has developed.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I honestly believe the situation has both light and dark, and you are focusing on the light.

For one thing, anyone who has purchased a new Mac Pro (like I have) cannot start up the computer in Snow Leopard. It is completely incompatible.

Second of all, there have been really annoying bugs in Logic Pro 9 that have NEVER been fixed. This is what leads me to believe that we're being treated poorly and that nobody is listening. If it's not a bug that effects ALL users, is it not still a bug that needs to be fixed?

Finally, all I have installed in this BRAND NEW computer is Logic and 4 plugins. Nothing else. It's all native 10.8 components. And I have removed the plugin that is officially not compatible with 10.7/8 and it made no difference.

I really would prefer not to move on, but I'm going to start to learn another just in case. My opinion differs with yours completely about how Apple have been developing this app. Just like in FCPX they make these big gesture changes but fail to dot all the i's and cross the t's.

BTW, sorry, I didn't mean to make this personal... I really do enjoy these kinds of lively discussions and respect your views.

For one thing, anyone who has purchased a new Mac Pro (like I have) cannot start up the computer in Snow Leopard. It is completely incompatible.

Unfortunately, the 'safety rule' about new operating systems also applies to buying new computers. It's not a good idea to buy a computer requiring a certain OS unless one knows that all relevant programs work with that OS.

BTW, sorry, I didn't mean to make this personal... I really do enjoy these kinds of lively discussions and respect your views.

No problem! :-) I actually take 'someone focusing the light' as a compliment anyway and don't mind having different viewpoints than someone I talk with. But if you have been told that your setup (Logic + a computer reqiring Mountain Lion) should work and it doesn't, Apple hasn't delivered the goods and you could probably cancel the purchase, because you don't get what you pay for.

And I have removed the plugin that is officially not compatible with 10.7/8 and it made no difference.

Have you looked for startup items (drivers etc) on your account, 3rd part icons in the menu bar (upper right side) etc, checked the Console app for background acticity etc? I'm not saying that this isn't a Logic bug, but I keep wondring why I got rid of the problem while some some others didn't. Maybe some of your three remaining plugins can cause problems as well, even if they aren't officially not compatible. Are they officially *compatible*?

Logic has some bugs, like all other DAWs. My AU-brigde suddenly crashed the other day even if I hadn't touched the Mac for a few hours (probably caused my some Google background activity). This shouldn't happen. But whatever you decide to do, I suggest having a look at the troubleshooting forums for other DAWs before you decide anything dramatic.

My opinion differs with yours completely about how Apple have been developing this app.

Even if Apple will release a version who fixes this problem, the problem may not even be caused by Logic itself itself, but to the OS, or the OS + certain drivers for eg. printers, monitors, routers, audio interfaces or elements written by 3rd parts. only that Logic needs a new updat eto be 100% compatible with Mountain Lion. Or the problem could be caused but Logic+ML combo, in which case Apple IMHO should have announced that Logic 9.1.7 and Mountain Lion aren't fully compatible with each other.

Message was edited by: ZXC: Replaced "problems" with "plugins".

Thanks, as I said, all I've installed is Logic Pro plus 4 3rd party plugins (including Trillian). Everything on my Mac was installed with the Mountain Lion installation.

Logic must be made to work with the current OS. Period. Bugs like this should NOT exist.

You can install Snow Leopard to the new macs by target boothing the new mac to a mac that is capable of running snow leopard and install snow leopard to the new mac hd. then boot the old mac holding down option key and select the hd on the new mac so it boots. do the update to the latest version of SL then reboot the new computer and SL will boot on the new mac.

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