THIS is why there is no upgrade price for Logic Pro X

seeren wrote:

Had you bought 10 a couple months before the announcement of 11 you would be in the same boat.

I'm pretty sure PT 11 had no grace period at all, so if you bought one day before the announcement you'd be paying $299 for that upgrade.

I do agree that Apple should have done a grace period of at least 30 days for all users. But the notion that some have suggested that it's better to pay $299 for an upgrade than $199 full price is just idiotic.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. We've known from the start that associating ourselves with Apple is hardly a smooth ride. Great hardware, yes. I love my iPad. But paying $398 within a month for Logic? With all the skull sweat I've put in trying to get to grips with it, for my purposes, I'd have been WAY better off sticking with Soundscape. Yes, I'm an idiot who got sucked in. I've learned my lesson. Do I need to shout it from the rooftops? Please learn from me. Please.

THIS IS NO BARGAIN.

For you personally, because of the timing of when you bought LP9, maybe not.. but you could have purchased LP9 from the app store 2 years ago.. for $199 or the 'hard copy' upgrade from LP8 to LP9 3 years ago for $499 and then the figures would look a lot better don't you think?

On top of that...If you had paid $1000 for LP9 as part of LS.. then $199 for LPX would be a complete steal....

Its about perspective and in your case, timing..... not 'models' or any other comparison...

Don't think so. I think it's about corporate culture. Most other entities I deal with will communicate with me and let me know what's coming up and what I can expect. Apple seems to feel it's in it's interest (and it apparently is) to keep the customer in the dark. Thus I got suckered into buying a 'pig in a poke'. I'd feel a lot better about it if the **** thing was more intuitive and the bargain everyone claims it is. It's like TV. A million things available and not much I can use.

Seriously, do the math. Compare the price of buying the app plus the first upgrade for all the other major DAWs.

Okay Mike....here's the math...

after only a single upgrade Sonar by Cakewalk and the Presonus package beat out LP. After a second upgrade Reason edges out LP. Ableton and Cubase will never be cheaper but by all accounts are better packages. Now LP is definatley on par with Sonar and Presonus. There are arguments to be made on some level for that. But Reason (the Suite) and Cubase are recognized by most professional users as more serious software packages. I won't include my rankings of these packages because that would be my opinion. I was called out to "do the math" so that it what I have done. I think it speaks volumes. Also apparent here is that there is an industry standard in upgrading that Apple has ignored, and done so without warning or notice to the consumer. LP is NOT the bargain it pretends to be. And again....my problem is with Apple's efforts to keep their pricing policies secret. Not the quality or initial price of LP.

APC

This is getting very silly....

One of the three (cheaper to upgrade) apps you mentioned isn't even available on the Mac (Sonar) and the other two (Reason and Pro One) while pretty good apps in themselves.. do not offer anything like the Pro level facilities that LPX does...

You also missed off PT and Nuendo from your list which are about the closest comparisons to LPX

But Reason (the Suite) and Cubase are recognized by most professional users as more serious software packages.

I'm sorry.. but offering up Reason as one of the packages most Pro users use.. is plainly incorrect.... and pretty laughable..

The Pro DAWs most studios use are (in no particular order) PT, Logic, Cubase( though in reality most Pro studios use Nuendo which is much more expensive) and Ableton Live. Where on earth do you get the idea that Reason is used in the majority of Pro User's Studios?

Again, if Apple had decided to charge say.. $499 for Logic Pro X full version and $199 for the upgrade, would you be complaining? No... but because there is just one price you do so... and again I ask, who cares what anyone else has to pay for LPX. If it is worth X amount to you then that is all that matters... and you have the choice to buy it or not. No one is forcing you to do so.

Your complaint is simply because of the timing of when you bought LP9 and the release of LPX.. nothing more, nothing less... You can 'dress it up' all you wish...but had you bought Logic Pro 9.. as many people did... 3+ years ago for $1000 or upgraded from LP8 to LP9 for $499... you would be singing and dancing at the price drop to $199 for LPX...

And then there's Reaper...

Non-Professional License = $60 (personal use, some commercial use and students)

Professional License = $225 (Commercial Studio use) Includes all upgrades through two full versions.

Actually a very advanced program, somewhat oblique, very good sound, routing capabilities exceeding all of the other DAWs. Updates come very fast.

Both 32 and 64-bit versions for both Mac & PC, cross platform compatible.

Full program is less than 15 megabytes to download. Has a great library of user skins.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

The Art Of Sound wrote:

APC

You also missed off PT and Nuendo from your list which are about the closest comparisons to LPX

Actually, Cubase is closer to Logic than Nuendo... Logic doesn't have any of the specialized tools for post that Nuendo ships with. Other than that, Nuendo/Cubase are very, very similar, same audio engine..etc..etc.

I'm perfectly comfortable moving between Cubase and Logic, I end up doing it a lot.

*grins*

Yes Pancenter.. I was being a little... err.. 'aggressive' in my comparison.... 😉

I agree about Reaper btw.. I quite like that DAW.... (Though in truth I haven't spent much time using it as I have to focus on what DAWs my clients are using) and for the price (and the way it is publically supported by the Devs.. and most importantly how Users are listened to by the Dev team) it cannot be beat imho...

I don't want to think about adding up the Nuendo purchase/upgrade total. :-o

Although I say this without a doubt, Nuendo's product support for professionals is the best in the business. Yamaha/Steinberg have flown specialists (on their dime) to a handfull of studios/post houses to fix problems they considered serious.

One amazing feature of Reaper.. it runs on any Mac OS from 10.4/10.5 to 10.8.4. And there's only one version of the program. (two if you count 32/64-bit)

Goes to show what great programming can do. The 64-bit version tops out at 13 megabytes.

The Upgrade Model: REAPER upgrades are offered whenever something is fixed or some new features are added. Upgrades are released frequently, sometimes as often as every few days. Releasing upgrades incrementally helps us ensure that bug fixes get the attention they need, rather than being buried under a list of new features, and also gets new features into users' hands quickly, so that users can offer feedback and help guide the development process via the user forum.

AOS,

I'm sorry.. but offering up Reason as one of the packages most Pro users use.. is plainly incorrect.... and pretty laughable..

I have known a number of professional musicians in the electronica/dub arena that love the Reason Suite (which is the price I quoted). If you want to argue dub musicians are not in fact musicians but purveyors of noise, that is subjective arguement better suited to a different thread.

One of the three (cheaper to upgrade) apps you mentioned isn't even available on the Mac (Sonar)

You also missed off PT and Nuendo from your list which are about the closest comparisons to LPX

Like many people, I own both Mac and PC. And if you are going to argue that all professional musicians use Mac, I will have to make the call that such a claim is pretty laughable.

And while I did the math, which I believe pretty convicing to our point, I did not include every software package, but the math is simple enough that you could include it in your posts to prove your point. All you would need is (initial cost of the software) + (upgrade price) for the first upgrade, and (initial) + 2(upgrade) for the second and so on. don't just thrown out names of packages I missed. Do the math and prove me wrong.

Again, if Apple had decided to charge say.. $499 for Logic Pro X full version and $199 for the upgrade, would you be complaining? No...

YES!!! SEE YOU DO UNDERSTAND!!! If Apple had done as you say, I would not be complaining. This is the only problem I have. The dishonest way in which Apple sucked people in pretending their package was a deal, when in fact, it was just altering its pricing model...in variation from EVERY OTHER COMPANY IN THE FIELD.

alohapussycat wrote:

when in fact, it was just altering its pricing model...in variation from EVERY OTHER COMPANY IN THE FIELD.

You could say they altered their distribution model which probably affected their pricing scheme more than anything else. The App Store has set policies to protect the app programmers.. and the app customers. Since Logic is only distributed by the App store it must follow the guidelines as well.

Personally.. I don't think "Pro" applications should follow the App Store model, I think they should be available on disk if requested, even on a small USB hard drive. Doesn't matter if they cost a little more, support should be better, Apple/Logic developers and customers need some back and forth communication. I love Logic, but in the past couple of years it has moved in the direction of being a Garageband upgrade than a pro application. It's also pirated relentlessly, I find that disheartening. One thing a pro application needs is professional support and to be honest, these and other online forums provide more professional support than Apple when it comes to product use.

Pancenter,

I did not include Nuendo because I have no experience with it. After your comments, I will certainly look into it. And I am TOTALLY with you on Reaper. Reaper was my PC sofware DAW. And what you left out of your Reaper review is that Reaper allows you to use the software without any crippling limitations FOR FREE....FOR AS LONG AS YOU WANT!!! Reaper is awesome. I jumped on the LP bandwagon because it seemed very easy to use (Reaper can be a bit tough) and the price seemed cheap (shame on me for getting suckered there).

Thanks for the Nuendo tip!!!

One other item... it all makes sense if you look at it in terms of profit for Apple. Apple is a hardware company, the low pricing and distribution model is designed to sell hardware. Logic only runs on the Mac, you have to buy a Mac to use Logic, the Mac is the dongle. Logic comes with a companion app the runs on the iPad, no surprise, that sells hardware too. Don't worry, this isn't a conspiracy theory, Apple has every right to make money any way they can. They've convinced enough people they're cool and it seems there are a lot of people that want to be thought of as cool. Logic is an amazing bargain considering how developed the software is.

All you have to do is look at this forum to see where things are headed. Apple will follow the money, they have to now.

Pancenter,

Apple has every right to make money any way they can. They've convinced enough people they're cool and it seems there are a lot of people that want to be thought of as cool.

I agree in theory...I am a Adam Smith fan and Apple has the right to act in their best interest. But I just want to put it out into the world that despite their "rage against the corporate machine" carefully cultivated image, they are actually the worst of the corporate greed fat cats. If they are being dramatically uncool, they deserve to be called on it. I think, sans Steve Jobs, they will slowly see their image start to more acurately reflect the true Evil Apple model. And where I do differ with your opinion is that I do not believe that Apple can do ANYTHING they want to turn a profit. And while what they did is legal, they are skirting the borders of unethical behavior.