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GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

I'm using a Wi-Fi only iPad with remote GPS connected via bluetooth (Bad Elf GPS Pro). Following update to 8.3, the GPS position data from the Bad Elf receiver is not available to other apps on the iPad that require it (in particular, Seattle Avionics FlyQ efb). Bad Elf bluetooth connection is good, and the GPS position data is displayed on the iPad using the Bad Elf accessory app, but it appears to not be available to the FlyQ app. Spent hours with tech support and other paths trying to fix this problem, including reloading iOS 8.3 update and applications, and even bought a new Bad Elf GPS receiver. I think this is a fairly common hardware/software combination (Wi-Fi only iPad, Bad Elf GPS, FlyQ app) for private aircraft pilots, so would expect others to be seeing the same problem (unless they were smarter than I was, and delayed updating their OS). Have others experienced this problem or found a solution? Quite frustrating, as navigation is the primary use for my iPad.

iPad (4th gen) Wi-Fi, iOS 8.3

Posted on Apr 12, 2015 5:31 PM

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Apr 12, 2015 5:57 PM

Actually, it's a bug on all bluetooth GPS devices since iOS 8.3 !

I personally use Garmin Glo and Dual Electronics 150 & 160 and the trouble remains the same.


Bad Elf blog suggest that Apple is aware of the problem and will correct it very soon.

I will believe it when i'll see it...

249 replies

Jun 13, 2015 8:42 PM in response to PilotDon

Although I won't be rushing to load new versions in future I am sorely tempted to make an exception with 8.4 if only for my iPad Mini that has no cell/gps.


All this pain could be avoided if Apple would simply allow users to (easily) go back to a previous version of iOS. This happens all the time in the Macintosh world.


In our organization, we keep a, "guinea pig" iPhone and iPad. We install the new iOS on those devices and test all the important apps. We then search the Internet and these discussion forums for issues important to us. Once an update has been out for 60 days, we will then update our iOS devices.

Jun 14, 2015 9:31 AM in response to Mark72658

I was just googling around looking for what devices have Bluetooth GPS support for my WiFi iPad and came across this thread.


Now, I am not pilot - but I have been in software development for 20+ years. Here is what I find curious after reading through this entire thread:


1. How the **** did anyone fly airplanes before Apple released the iPad in 2010? Aviation some how made it 100 years without iPads. Maybe we have become too dependent on technology?


2. I encourage all of you to start your own software/hardware company, and produce devices used by billions of people in an infinite number of possible ways - and never have a single glitch or issue arise. Seriously: Apple has sold something like 300 million iPads and approaching a billion iPhones. Every single one of those devices is used in a unique way with unique situations and combinations of hardware and software.


3. I agree it is strange that not one single one of the companies who specialize in specifically GPS devices didn't catch this bug until it was way too late. I mean it is one thing for Apple not to test with every possible GPS device - but it is quite another for the makers of a specific device to not test with iOS updates. When your entire company makes about 3 specific devices - I would think it would be pretty important to test every software update pretty thoroughly.


4. I don't really have any skin in the game here. I just want to use my iPad with river or bay charts when I go into unfamiliar places. No biggie, I can manage without it until 8.4 comes out. But some of the people in this thread have been incredibly vocal about how they feel Apple has personally wronged them in some way. That is just not the case. This stuff isn't easy folks. We do our best in the industry to prevent things like this, but sometimes they happen. This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

Jun 14, 2015 11:49 AM in response to clam45

I'm not sure how he is blaming the customer, unless you are saying they should have delayed upgrading which is always a good idea when using vertical software. My take is he blamed the 3rd party vendors that make the hardware/software which I would agree with.


Apple has never supported rolling back the OS and never will.

Jun 14, 2015 11:52 AM in response to John Reinhold

How did anyone cook for thousands of years without a range or microwave? How did people have careers before cars?


We don't HAVE to have it, but it helps with situational awareness in the cockpit and helps get rid of paper charts. It makes an outdated 1960's cockpit become a n almost modern day glass cockpit with just an iPad and GPS. It's revolutionary what's at our finger tips now.


So no, we don't have to have it, but it helps keep the workload down. It helps us fly the airplane and worry less about navigation and turning knobs and calculating times. Considering someday in the near future, the old ways of navigation will gone, this will be even larger in scope as time goes on.

Jun 14, 2015 2:02 PM in response to John Reinhold

1. How the **** did anyone fly airplanes before Apple released the iPad in 2010? Aviation some how made it 100 years without iPads. Maybe we have become too dependent on technology?

How the **** did anyone travel before Henry Ford produced automobiles starting in 1921? We some how made it eons without automobiles. Maybe we have become too dependent on automobiles and mass transportation?

2. I encourage all of you to start your own software/hardware company, and produce devices used by billions of people in an infinite number of possible ways - and never have a single glitch or issue arise. Seriously: Apple has sold something like 300 million iPads and approaching a billion iPhones. Every single one of those devices is used in a unique way with unique situations and combinations of hardware and software.

"Glitches" are always acceptable and understood to be a part of the accepted risks of using an iPad or any electronic device and associated software. The bottom line is that we all understand and accept that "glitches" may occur. And when this problem first appeared I'm sure everyone was quite understanding - after all, s**t happens, especially when it comes to software.

But what has really aggravated this user community, and what makes that anger so apparent on this thread, is Apple's hubris in taking its time to address the problem. This is not some gamer's remote being rendered useless by this bluetooth glitch, this is people's livelihood and safety being impacted by this glitch. I would even go so far as to say any one of us would probably be fine living with this "glitch", if Apple wouldn't be so controlling of its user environment and would allow a roll back to 8.2. But we are beholden to Apple's whim and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever we can do about it with regards to this "glitch". Apple's official policy regarding the fix and not allowing us to roll back to 8.2 has effectively rendered my iPad useless for the purpose for which I originally purchased it for.

3. I agree it is strange that not one single one of the companies who specialize in specifically GPS devices didn't catch this bug until it was way too late. I mean it is one thing for Apple not to test with every possible GPS device - but it is quite another for the makers of a specific device to not test with iOS updates. When your entire company makes about 3 specific devices - I would think it would be pretty important to test every software update pretty thoroughly.

How do you know that this issue wasn't caught by some companies and that Apple ignored them and released 8.3 anyway? How do you know the last beta version of 8.3 was glitch free but that the final public release of 8.3 didn't incorporate a last-minute change by Apple creating this glitch?

4. I don't really have any skin in the game here.

If you don't have any skin in the game then you probably should look at another, more relevant thread.

I just want to use my iPad with river or bay charts when I go into unfamiliar places.

And there's the reason why you don't and can't empathize with this user community. Floating on a river or bay, drifting with the tides and currents, is quite different than flying an aircraft at 140 MPH or more in congested airspace over densely populated areas.

No biggie, I can manage without it until 8.4 comes out.

Good for you.

But some of the people in this thread have been incredibly vocal about how they feel Apple has personally wronged them in some way. That is just not the case.

I would be willing to bet that not just "some of the people in this thread", but every single one of them, myself included, feels that Apple has in fact wronged them.

This stuff isn't easy folks. We do our best in the industry to prevent things like this, but sometimes they happen.

And every one of us, I'm sure, understands that. As I said before, the issue is not that the glitch occurred, but that Apple is taking its time to address it and, at the same time, has eliminated our ability to fix it ourselves via a roll-back to 8.2. This issue is not about the glitch occurring. It is about Apple's glaring poor customer service regarding this issue. Plain and simple.

This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

And that, my friend, is the first accurate statement you've made, because this is where we, as a user community, are at fault. None of us should have ever upgraded to 8.3 without waiting to obtain feedback from the GPS manufacturers as well as the EFB software companies to ensure all was well before upgrading. Personally, I will never again update my iPad for a good 30 days or more after a new release in order to ensure all bugs, if any, related to my EFB and GPS device are published.


In the final analysis, this issue really is a result of Apple's own success - we've all become so used to "it just works" that we ASSUMED any update would in fact "just work".

Jun 14, 2015 2:19 PM in response to John Reinhold

John Reinhold wrote: This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

This is all fine and dandy in the tech industry. But realize that the majority of users are simply Joe and Jean Shmoe. When Apple auto-pushes (yes, Apple continues to do this) an update to their device, they simply push that "Update" button, thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread and newer is always better. This is what Apple wants...everybody to be on the same iOS version, regardless of if there are issues with it or not. If there are issues, the end-user suffers until Apple corrects it...which is sometimes not for a VERY long time.


I personally ran iOS 6 for a *very* long time after iOS 7 was released before finally updating. I NEVER update immediately, simply because I don't want to break something that's already working fine with no issues, just to have the "newest" iOS versiobn. This is normal to me and the line of work with the industry I'm in. But like I mentioned above, Apple wants as many users as possible to make the switch as soon as possible. Maybe in time, people will figure out that the newest thing is not always better and they need to do some research before jumping into the pool....it may look clean and refreshing but there are always bugs and stuff to be aware of.

Jun 14, 2015 3:07 PM in response to petermac87

What happens all the time in the Apple world?

Sometimes a new Mac OS will break software, and it becomes necessary to revert to a previous version of the Mac OS.


Many had to do this in order to continue using iMovie HD 06 and other programs.


Strangely, I have never understood why everyone in the Mac community is perfectly happy with using previous versions of the Mac OS. In fact, on at least one occasion Apple recommended the procedure to solve a given problem.


However, in the past, I have given procedures, (not involving jailbreaking) and I'm pounced upon. I never understood why it's okay to go back in Mac, but not with iOS. 😕

Jun 15, 2015 5:58 PM in response to Ziatron

We should not take the Apple policy towards its customers as a God given law.


Really: APPLE, STEVE IN HEAVEN, MAKE DOWNGRADING POSSIBLE!! There is really no reason for this as you prevent older Macs and iPhones from upgrading to more recent OS. So older OS doesn't seem to be a problem. My iPhone2 cannot even dowload third party Apps. But it works just fine!!!! And my iPhones 3S on IOS6and 4 on IOS7 even with Foreflight and any external GPS- receiver. (The built in GPS is not sensitive enough in the plane, so I need an external third party GPS.


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GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

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