Hub 2000 Modem - Fibe Internet - extending WiFi using Airport Extreme

Question

Level 1

0 points

Hub 2000 Modem - Fibe Internet - extending WiFi using Airport Extreme

I have Fibe TV / Internet with Bell - using the Hub 2000 Modem/Router combination. The Hub is in my utility room / furnace room where all the Cat 5 data cable runs come into. The WiFi coverage from the Hub 2000 is all right for the Basement and Main Floor - however, the 2nd floor - not so good. What I want to do is extend the existing Wireless Network that I have set up on my Bell Hub 2000 using the Airport Extreme on the 2nd floor in my office - using the same SSID as already set up on the Bell Hub 2000. My goal is to connect the Hub 2000 using the existing Cat 5 cable drop from the 2nd floor office - plugging one end into the Bell Hub 2000 LAN Port and then the other end into the Airport Extreme WAN port in the 2nd Floor office.

Will this work based on the logic I've mentioned?

Daren

Mac Pro (Late 2013), iOS 8.4

Posted on Jul 15, 2015 12:24 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 17, 2015 11:30 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks Bob and LaPastenague. I finally got it to work. For any of you Bell Fibe customers out there - here's the way to make it work.

The ONLY way to get this to work on the Bell Fibe service using the Home Hub 2000 is to log into the modem, completely turn off both the 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz Wireless Networks. Completely disable. This now makes the Home Hub 2000 a dumb router. Once you save and have confirmed both WiFi networks are disabled - follow the next steps.

1. Hard factory reset the AE [AirPort Extreme, Express]. Do this by inserting a paperclip end into the reset hole on the back side of the AE. While holding the paper clip in the reset hole, plug in the power. Hold the reset for 7-8 seconds-or until you see a rapid flashing amber/yellow light. Then release on the reset while keeping the power cable attached.

The next steps I'm plagiarizing from Bob's previous notes. So credit to Bob for those screen shots.

Connect an Ethernet cable from the hub to the WAN "O" port on the AirPort Extreme. I assume that you have tested the Ethernet cable and it is performing correctly.

2. Click the WiFi icon at the top of the Mac's screen and look for a listing of New AirPort Base Station. Just below that listing, click directly on AirPort Extreme.

That will get the setup "wizard" up and running. It will take a minute to analyze the network, then present a screen that looks similar to this, except that you will see a picture of the AirPort Extreme.

**NOTE** - You may want to click "Other Options" button at this point to ensure the "Create a New Network" radio button is selected.

The network you are creating is identical to the 2.4 Ghz Wireless Network you already had on the Home Hub 2000.

Network Name..............Enter in the exact SSID that the Bell hub is using

Base Station Name......Enter a short name that you want to call the AiPort Extreme

Password.....................Enter the wireless network password for the Bell network, which will also be the device password for the AirPort Extreme

Verify............................Enter the password again to Verify

3. Click Next

The following screen will come up asking for your PPPoE information from the ISP.

Just ignore it - and Click Next.

4. The AE will connect with the router to gather network requirements. After a minute or 2 - it will say it's complete.

**HOWEVER** - You'll notice a red circle with a 3 inside of it. This means there are 3 errors. Click on it to see the errors.

i. is the alert that there is a Double NAT. Just click on the drop down and click "Ignore"

ii. Is the alert/error about PPPoE.

5. Click on the AE Icon then click "Edit" This opens the settings menu. Click on the Wireless Tab at the top. In the connect using drop down menu - it will be already populated with PPPoE. Click the drop down and select DHCP. Then in the lower right of the menu - click "Update". Wait 30 seconds or so. The AE will now show a green light and the AE in the AirPort Utility will show a Green light.

**NOTE** - You must leave the Wireless Networks that were on your Bell Home Hub 2000 always disabled.... never activate again. If you try re-enabling them - it will cause your AE to lose the connectivity for the Wireless Network.

I spent 2 hours on the phone with Apple Support and they were amazing helping me through this. Their similar Telco providing Fibe in the US is AT&T - which is our Bell in Ontario, Canada.

Thanks all for your help. Problem solved.

Reply

Answer 2

Jul 15, 2015 12:54 PM in response to DubbaD

This will work assuming that the Bell Wifi is using WPA2 Personal security, which is an industry standard....and....you have a version of the AirPort Extreme that is less than about 5 years old.

Start by performing a Hard Reset on the AirPort Extreme by holding in the reset button on the back of the AirPort for 7-8 seconds, then releasing and allowing a full minute for the AirPort Extreme to restart to a slow, blinking amber light.

Connect an Ethernet cable from the hub to the WAN "O" port on the AirPort Extreme. I assume that you have tested the Ethernet cable and it is performing correctly.

Click the WiFi icon at the top of the Mac's screen and look for a listing of New AirPort Base Station. Just below that listing, click directly on AirPort Extreme.

That will get the setup "wizard" up and running. It will take a minute to analyze the network, then present a screen that looks similar to this, except that you will see a picture of the AirPort Extreme.

Network Name..............Enter in the exact SSID that the Bell hub is using

Base Station Name......Enter a short name that you want to call the AiPort Extreme

Password.....................Enter the wireless network password for the Bell network, which will also be the device password for the AirPort Extreme

Verify............................Enter the password again to Verify

Click Next

The wizard will set up everything for you automatically. When you see the message of Setup Complete, click Done...and you are done.

Reply

Answer 3

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 20, 2015 6:26 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Bob / LaPast...

Did some further investigation. My Router mode was "DHCP and NAT".

Talked to my CCIE Wireless Networks buddy at work. He said I did all the right steps, however, instead of clicking "ignore" on the Double NAT error, I should have edited in the AirPort Utility and gone to the "NETWORK" tab and Clicked on the Drop Down menu for the "Router Mode" and selected Bridge Mode for just using the AE as Wireless. If I wanted to use it as a routing function and wireless - change it to DHCP only - which I haven't tested yet. I did change it to "Off (Bridge Mode) per the image below - and all seems 100%. I'll try setting to DHCP only when I have a bit more time to experiment.

Reply

Answer 4

Jul 16, 2015 7:52 PM in response to DubbaD

it's causing that PPPoE screen to come up.

Any time the airport sees PPPOE it tries to take over.. but like Bob says .. it should have the option to setup in bridge.. you seem to be missing something.

I am a big proponent of using manual setups since you tend to get into less issues.

1. Factory reset the AE.

2. Plug into the unit with ethernet. You do this is complete network isolation.. ie just the computer and the AE.

Most of the rest are directly from this post.

Airtport Utility can't find Airport Time Capsule on either of my 2009 Macs

Once you do it manually you can select bridge.

Just post if any step doesn't make sense or doesn't work..

You will use Off bridge mode for Network setup.

Wireless as per Bob's instructions.. same wireless name and security as the Hub 2000.

The only difference here is once you apply.. please do NOT plug the hub2000 into the AE wan port.. use LAN..

That should work.. if it fails I can suggest another setup that will work but I will need you to do some change of setting in the Hub 2000.

Reply

Answer 5

Jul 17, 2015 12:02 PM in response to DubbaD

i. is the alert that there is a Double NAT. Just click on the drop down and click "Ignore"

Thanks for the info, but I want to make sure that I read this correctly.

Double NAT is more than a notice, it is an error, which tells you that you have two devices on the network, with both of them trying to perform routing duties...not a good thing. Apple's software advised you to set up the AirPort in Bridge Mode to avoid this.

Sometimes, you can get away with a Double NAT on a simple home network, but traditionally, you would not want to allow the Double NAT unless there were no other alternatives.

If you ignore the Double NAT, you will not be able to use Back To My Mac, access any of your drives from a remote Internet location, or play games interactively with other users over the Internet. Double NAT can create other issues as well....the most common being browsing errors.

Even Apple's own support documents advise against trying to run a network with a Double NAT. For example.....

Get help with multiple-NAT configurations for Back to My Mac - Apple Support

If these "ignore" instructions were provided to you by Apple, then I am very surprised. If that is the case, then this may be the only way that the AirPort can be setup to work with your particular fiber connection. If true.....this is no doubt going to create major grief for many users who need advanced features to function correctly on their networks.

Reply

Answer 6

Jul 20, 2015 6:48 PM in response to DubbaD

Bridge Mode is traditionally the correct setting to use when you have another router "upstream" on the network....because that upstream device is providing DHCP and NAT service. Adding another router to do the same thing again makes things quite a bit more complicated, and with two devices both providing NAT services, you get a Double NAT. Apple now does not seem to mind telling users to ignore this......and yet they provide other support documents that lecture us to avoid having Double NAT on a network.....and their own AirPort Utility software does the same thing......telling you to avoid Double NAT and recommending Bridge Mode.

I don't think you can have it both ways, but I may be wrong.

Bridge Mode allows the "upstream" router to provide IP addresses and NAT service to all devices on a network. The AirPort assumes a passive role in this type of setup. Traditionally, this is the correct way to set up a network when you have two routers. Apple seems to be breaking with tradition, as I see other users posting questions about advice they have received to ignore the Double NAT.

What I did not know was how your network would behave if you tried the Bridge Mode setting. If Bridge Mode is working well for you, that is technically, the correct setting to use for the network. That's why I'm surprised that Apple seems to be offering advice to make things more complicated for users. They must have their reasons.....but they won't put them in print.

I would avoid the DCHP Only setting, since that is a special case setting that is rarely used these days. If you decide to try it, I don't know what the results will be.

Reply

Answer 7

Jul 16, 2015 5:54 PM in response to DubbaD

No idea why you saw a request for PPPoE log in credentials when your modem is already providing that information. I've never seen that screen appear during a setup.

Apple routers are designed to work with normal DSL and cable products, so a guess would be that the Apple software is confused by a fiber connection.

The AirPort should be Connect Using DHCP.......not PPPoE.

Try go back in the process and see if there is an option to connect using DHCP. That is the one that you want.

Reply

Answer 8

Jul 20, 2015 7:05 PM in response to DubbaD

One question, if I'm in Bridge mode - on the AE - are my LAN ports still accessible / useable?

Yes, in Bridge Mode.....(Apple has to complicate things by calling it "Off (Bridge Mode)".....the Ethernet ports are all active and they all behave like a simple Ethernet switch.

So, when you are in Bridge Mode, all ports behave the same.......like LAN ports. The WAN port becomes a 4th LAN port when the AirPort is in Bridge Mode. Another way of saying the same thing is that there is no WAN port in Bridge Mode.

Reply

Answer 9

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 15, 2015 6:40 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks so much Bob. This is awesome detailed instructions. Current WiFi is indeed WPA2 - in fact it's WPA2-PSK(AES).

I have an old Airport Express and Time Capsule - however, going to purchase the latest Airport Extreme 802.11 ac .

I'll let you know how I make out - should go without any issues.

Reply

Answer 10

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 16, 2015 5:35 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Bob,

I got to a point then I had a window pop up that wasn't in your process instructions. See below.

I'm not sure of the account name and/or the password. Does this box need to be filled out? I had clicked next the first time around thinking it was optional, and then received the following pop up's.

I take it I will need the Account Name and Password for the Bell Fibe account - correct?

Reply

Answer 11

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 16, 2015 6:01 PM in response to Bob Timmons

No option for DHCP. Screen captures below show sequences.

I've Create a New Network - no success. I've tried Add to an Existing Network - no success. So just to make sure I'm connected via Cat5 cable correctly - The Cat5 run is plugged into my Bell Home Hub 2000 LAN Port -> which runs up to my 2nd Floor office to a Data Jack. Of which I have a Cat5 cable with RJ45 plugs on each end [tested and working] connected to the Data Jack on one end and the other end connected to the AirPort Extreme in the WAN Port. Followed the instructions to the T. Yet still came up with the PPPoE window.

Is there a setting on the Hub 2000 I need to configure that was missed in the process. I checked high and low and couldn't find any setting or toggle. Bell told me I need to reboot the modem 3 times to put it into Bridge mode - however, if I do that - I'm not sure if that will impact my Fibe TV or not.

Reply

Answer 12

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 16, 2015 6:51 PM in response to Bob Timmons

HI Bob. I also have an Airport Express - purchased in 2012. It was set up with a completely different SSID when I had Roger's Internet. It worked on Rogers - but I disconnected it when I got Fibe installed because Bell provided me with the Modem/WiFi combo. Anyhow, I just plugged it into the Cat5 Cable in my office - boom - Green Light - no configuration required. Wierd. So - stupid me - I reset the AirPort Express router hoping to follow the same steps you had provided - same result - error - and mid stream I got the PPPoE pop up screen. I also checked the Hub 2000 - DHCP is enabled - so I'm not sure what the deal is. The Hub 2000 is not in Bridge mode - which is how I was able to setup AirPort Express originally when I had Rogers.

I'm at a loss - aside of getting a Bell tech to come and help me out - I'm stumped.

Daren

Reply

Answer 13

Jul 16, 2015 7:05 PM in response to DubbaD

I helped my next door neighbor set up his AirPort Extreme on his fiber connection which uses an Actiontec modem/router as the hub about a month ago and the installation went fast, without a hitch just as I described above.

I took a spare Airport Express that I have over to try a test setup. After resetting the Express and hooking up the Ethernet cable to the WAN port and bringing up the setup utility, the screen appears exactly as you see in my original post.

The next screen after I click Next simply says that the Express is being configured to create a network, and after a few seconds, a third message of Setup Complete appears.

That's it. I see a total of 3 screens........what you see above in my original answer, another screen that says that things are being set up, and a third screen that indcates that the setup is complete.

I tried.....but could not even find the option to set things up using PPPoE as you have seen on your screen. I have no idea why this is appearing for you.

So, at this point, I think it would be best if you got in contact with Bell support to ask them if there any known issues with Apple routers......and/or.......get with Apple Support to ask them to walk you through the installation over the phone in a step by step fashion.

Reply

Answer 14

DubbaD Author

Level 1

0 points

Jul 16, 2015 7:08 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks Bob. They told me they won't support a 3rd party router installation. So it's a proprietary thing. I have a Bell tech buddy - I'll see if he can help. I think it all stems around the Hub 2000 and for some reason -it's causing that PPPoE screen to come up.

I'll also see if Apple can help me out on a parallel stream.

Thanks for your help.

D

Reply

Answer 15

Jul 16, 2015 7:17 PM in response to DubbaD

We can try a pure manual setup if you want, but it is tricky, and you will need to connect your Mac to the AirPort Extreme using an Ethernet cable for the setup.

So, you will have one Ethernet cable going to the WAN port on the AirPort from the hub and another Ethernet connection from your Mac going to one of the LAN <--> ports on the AirPort Extreme.

Post back if you have plenty of time and want to experiment with different settings.

Reply