iOS 10.1 Battery drain

"so you say, hundreds/thousands of batteries delivered with genuine, brand new phones are also crappy, and shut down under 20-30%?"

Genya, the Apple released industry numbers are 2.7 to 3.5% . Apple hopes to ship 100 million iPhone 7s this year. If you take the highest average last 3 years, say 3%, = 3 million iPhones. Out of these some will be battery related (as the 6S recall- and they were new!) Are these numbers acceptable to you?

Add to it 6S being produces, SE etc 250 million+ per year or 9-10 million phones. Hence why the 488 apple stores are stocked with a very smartly designed parts supply chain to anticipate for a forecasted number of repairs. tehy day of a new phone launch, parts arrive at the same time as the new phone.

Why the 30% If you go at Battery University, 30% is the magical Li Ion health threshold. A cell that looses ability to store properly does that below 30%. If affected, its ability to produce power stops at, you guessed it, 30%. It is an exponential down-curve. Power discharge is relatively steady until 30%. Then it drops nearly vertical.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ve d=0ahUKEwihoqC3pKbRAhWk5oMKHQF5Dm0QFggnMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2313- 0105%2F2%2F2%2F17%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNHpg5psHSwx5kUW-QQbjH1mow1CAQ&sig2=FHxTyPlsStay aGKAlLqlhA&bvm=bv.142059868,d.amc

But if you take at face value just the 6S affected recall, then you already answered your question.

I like the way you came back 180 degree to incorporate the battery-fail scenario I first hinted to you. There are surely several types of issues going on:

1- Battery drain, no sudden shutdown, good battery life (90+)

2- Battery drain, sudden shutdown, good battery life (90+)

3- Battery drain, no sudden shutdown, declining battery life (60-90)

4- Battery drain, sudden shutdowns, poor battery life (anything below 60)

5- No battery drain, sudden shutdown, good battery life

6- No battery drain, sudden shutdown, declining or poor battery life

Perhaps a patch can fix issues for those with Scenario 2, 5 and 6. What we do know is that continuous battery drain, or anything 1-4, = rapid discharge. Rapid mAh discharge kills Li-Ion batteries. Some readers dislike technical jargon, but it is reality. A leaking fuel tank will never get your car far.

Like I said, keep posting relevant good info. It is the presentation of questioning peoples motives and intelligence that often takes away from people taking-in what you are saying. Good Synopsis above BTW.

Anyhow... at this point after what you have informed me of and what the tech at Apple confirmed.

1. Attempt a Recovery Mode Factory Restore; if not fixed... step 2.

2. Have a Battery Diagnostic done remotely; problem gets logged. Checks other potential hardware issues.

3. If battery is bad; replace it.

4. If battery is good... 80-90%; Not sure here how someone should proceed, but their problem will be logged.

Much as it would pain me to stop playing the game, I would rather my phone's battery not die!

If you remember, there was a time years ago when watching a single movie on a mac or iPhone drained them pretty fast, right? not anymore. Since the CPUs (and ARM are top industry grade) and GPUs are hardware optimized, this is why I get 12-15 hrs of nonstop movie play on the MBP. helpful when traveling. The drain/discharge is hardware optimized, most of the load done by the CPU GPU etc. The battery sees a slow drain, despite videos beign graphically demanding.

Pokemon Go, to all indications, is neither hardware nor software optimized. Even Nav/Apple Maps Google Maps are GPS Chip optimized, so they will drain faster, in say, 10 hrs. But not PG. it is just a pig, forcing your battery to discharge rapidly and below those safe thresholds you saw at BU charts. It is the same on any Android phone as well.

Facebook used to drain my GF's battery. once she removed it, problem gone.

With millions of Apps in the App Store, it is impossible for the manufacturer to optimize each one, physically, in each chipset withing each 22 supported mobile iOS platforms. Then the Apps change with each update. So you get the scale of the limitation. Nav, movies, GPU optimized games (and why at Apple Event Mr Schiller introduces the game developers which worked with Apple specifically to optimize their games, work very well. So EA top games for mobile are generally optimized. It costs millions, but the partnerships are public knowledge. Outside this, user beware.

Why the 30% If you go at Battery University, 30% is the magical Li Ion health threshold. A cell that looses ability to store properly does that below 30%. If affected, its ability to produce power stops at, you guessed it, 30%. It is an exponential down-curve. Power discharge is relatively steady until 30%. Then it drops nearly vertical.

I concur.

This is my understanding after I have read the information.

This is my personal experience with my Daughters iPhone 5 which was below 20% and completely erratic after the update 10.1.1.

A Recovery Mode Restore got it working again for a week and it seemed to hold its charge for 30 hours, but the battery indicator was still a bit wonky. Installing the backup again brought on the unstable behavior from the failing battery.

Getting Apples Support app and Chatting with them via the app allowed me to have them run diagnostics on the iPhone 5 remotely. The report came back as a failing battery with less than 20% residual capacity. That is well below where instability begins to occur.

I am surprised it hadn't happened before. But the 10.1.1 update revealed the flaw in my machine. The Tech at Apple summarized this for me as well.

I'm definitely keeping tabs on the battery (particularly due to the reason for the swap in the first place). And very much aware that the one I got (ScandiTech for all it's worth) probably won't keep the phone going another 2.5 +/- years (unless I just got super lucky somehow). My situation was just really had no desire to put much money into this experiment nor to go out and upgrade (ie: purchase a new phone as personal preference not too impressed with currently available options for the cost - any manufacturers). If the battery fails, and more so if it kills the phone, upgrade time it is I suppose. Just trying to buy time til next gens of various phones are released.

BTW: really like the auto analogy (much more my language than phone batteries) 🙂

"It is the presentation of questioning peoples motives and intelligence that often takes away from people taking-in what you are saying."

Remember you only see a portion of the items I responded to. Some are quite insulting. Apple removes them before you even saw them. A few users then retone and retone the insult until it makes the cut. And when the speculation and attitude reached a very poor destructive level, it gets the required pushback threshold and I reply. To date, none of those replies have been deleted, even though the original post that triggered my response was deleted.

You may find interesting to google news the next iOS update.

I can go the auto analogy route quite far, from Lada to Veyron. Some users found it irrelevant to the forum. But here is another one. Let's take a cold country with a month 0F to -30F. European car owners flock at the dealership with electrical issues. Even though not Li-Ion, the question was, what was going on?

European cars have larger more powerful batteries in the trunk. Below -10C they never charge. Nor does Li Ion. Bavarians, for example, need 30+ miles driving before the alternator is switched to warm the battery. And since most people drive daily, those batteries, taxed by Nav, seated heats, wheels in car apps, are always drained. Below 30%, the auto batteries stop powering key electrical system e.g. power steering. The answer for me was to lower the ski trap and let hot air warm the trunk, and plug the battery as often as practical. With the freely provided trickle charger I had not used initially. Zero problem since.

Front car battery owners get some power as their batteries are partially heated by the nearby engines. But they only last 4 years in cold climates, 140$ or so. Powerful, nicer cars, those batteries run 500$ so running down an expensive battery is not something I opt for. Optimized use is the smartest way to save money.

So the users here saying their battery shut down due to outside cold are confusing the issue, as we do not know if it usage versus bug. At high cold the batteries can shut down even at 90% to protect the circuits. At least cuddos to Apple for building in a cold and heat circuit braker.

paikinator wrote:

You would only have a 90-day warranty on the battery if your phone's warranty had less than 90 days left on it or was out of warranty entirely.

I would assume a 3 year old 5S with a battery that was installed 3 months ago would be bumping up against its warranty of 90 days which is why I advised urgency in seeking help with the 5S battery issue and having Apple run a diagnostic.

It's good advice to deal with issues sooner rather than later. I simply wanted to clarify that there are times when a battery has a warranty longer than 90 days. I'm a proponent of precision in a technical support forum.

iPhone outside warranty: 90 Days battery warranty

iPhone with warranty: min 90 days, up to whichever is longer (e.g. Apple Care 2nd year).

CC: doubles manufacturer, so 90 days more for a total of 180 claimable with your CC and a certified Defect report.

back to school work...

*Addition/correction that hit me*

Stating the "original" battery was dated 2/14. It hit me I've had the phone much longer. Had the 5 since it came out upgrading from the 3g. Apple replaced the battery when I took it in (45 min drive) for the power button recall. So technically the 2nd battery, not original to the phone but still replaced by Apple. Just a wording catch.

i just want to express my frustration with my iPhone 6 which like many others had the battery life suddenly tank and random shutdowns.

Before I was aware others were having this issue, I made a genius bar appt. They checked my phone and told me everything was ok, but just in case they recommended a complete restore which they did. I was told everything would be ok.

Nothing changed. I explored this community and found that others were having the same problem. I scheduled a telephone apple support call and they assessed my phone again and again I received the good news that my phone was fine. The only solution that was offered was to switch my phone to low power mode. I asked about other's experiences and was told that only a small number of iPhone 6s were having battery problems. I asked if a new battery would solve my problem and was told that Apple did not recommend a battery change since my battery was tested at 86% of capacity. Apple support was very clear that a battery change would be at my expence and risk.

I Decided to accept the risk and expense and scheduled another Genius Bar appt to get a battery installed. At the appointment they did not have the battery in stock, but they checked my phone again with the results that my phone and battery is good. Now I'm waiting for a call to be notified they have the battery In stock so I can see if this will fix my phone.

So I'm frustrated that I don't have a phone that I can trust.

I'm frustrated that if there is an iOS issue, Apple has made no comment on any possible connection with iOS 10.x and the problems that I'm experiencing. Other than speculation on this community board that iOS 10.2 includes something to check battery drain and iOS 10.3 may have a fix, I have not found anything from apple (and the support call and the last Genius Bar appointment denied any known problem)

If this is simply an lithium battery issue, then I'm frustrated that after 2 Genius Bar appointments and one support call, Apple assesses my battery and phone as being fine. If we should expect that batteries in iPhones may go bad at anytime if you use the flashlight, or if your phone gets hot or cold or if you use certain apps, then why doesn't Apple design it with a user replaceable battery.

Two Assumption. First, that it is the OS. A patch may fix. it.

Assumption 2, that it is the battery:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/testing_lithium_based_batteries is your starting point. And will quote from there:

"No rapid-test can evaluate all battery symptoms and there are always outliers that defy the test protocol. Correct prediction should be 9 out of 10. QuickSort™ (by Cadex) exceeds this requirement with most Li-ion packs for mobile phones, but this technology only testes single-cell packs up to 1,500mAh. New technologies in development promise to test larger Li-ion packs, but this may extend the test to a few minutes to accommodate low frequency sampling."

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwjCl4ze 1KfRAhXI1IMKHQrVAtIQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%…

"QuickSort™ is based on the electrochemical dynamic response of the battery rather than resistance measurement.

Resistance does not provide a reliable indication on capacity fade that occurs with cycling."

All quick health readouts are resistance tests. In all smartphones, Management Controllers just report the resistance, i.e. capacity retention it is at at that moment. Let's say you have a new, yet defective battery. We know they exist. Yet Apple tests all devices, as do the battery manufacturers, right? A quick first resistance testing, it will read 100-105%. Yet it still is defective. It is meant to die in weeks, or months, but, by specs, according to resistance, it is fine. At 86%, it may still meet the 80% above threshold, but still defective and dying.

Cadex testing is down with batteries removed and they are approaching the 30s threshold. But that is another future measurement metric, not yet an industry standard.

So technically Apple staff is correct when referring to its resistance / capacity /'health' measurement standard, one day Fine at 90%, and, 60 days, later, telling Adrian that his battery Died at 20%. Both answers are correct even if days apart. But the dynamic response of the battery was never measured unless you witness that battery removed and placed on special devices... Onboard diagnostics collect MC data, do not stress a battery across a frequency spectrum.

No, these advanced testing techniques are not possible on a production line. 250 000 000 iPhones (and 300 million other brands) at future 30 s Cadex / per battery test means 125 million testing minutes for iPhone intended batteries alone. It can be done post facto to establish the few million defective units, but not possible before, with current technology. The production line, even with 1000 testing kits, or 100 000, would be too slow....

in other words, your intuition is right, and their response is correct against the reference system they use. The issue is inherent to Li Ion technology, limitations and industrial standards.

All you have to do is wait. If it is the battery, it will die shortly, likely within the Apple Care warranty. Best of possible, use your phone as you would normally. Of course, the more drain it experiences, the quicker its health will degrade to warrant-able status.😉

If we should expect that batteries in iPhones may go bad at anytime if you use the flashlight, or if your phone gets hot or cold or if you use certain apps, then why doesn't Apple design it with a user replaceable battery

Because removable batteries have x5 more ways that they can kill any phone (corrosion, water based shorts, 3d party cheap battery short, etc). If Apple has even 9 million yearly defective units, annually, out of 500 million in use, that is an engineering feat. A removable battery can push them x5 more defective units. As it is you have around 97% odds of perfectly working phone for 2+years..

I can't wait for a complete failure because of my work (medical). Having a fully charged phone silently shut off with minimal use in 5-8 hours is not compatible with being on call for the ER for 24-48 hr shifts.

I can't wait so I'll buy a new battery as soon as possible. If that doesn't fix the problem, I will not be able to wait to see if Apple fixes a software problem if they are silent on whether a problem exists.

If I have to replace this phone, my loyalty to Apple iPhones will not be automatic as it has been since I replaced a blackberry 8-10 yrs ago.