NOTO font family is driving me INSANE!

Kurt Lang wrote:

If you choose All Fonts, it still doesn't show you all fonts. Does that sound like something that's working to you?

All I can do is give you the link to the Apple support document. I can't make you read it.

Apple includes additional fonts that aren't listed, or aren't supposed to be listed, in the font display. These are fonts meant to support documents that might use them. But Apple doesn't want people to create new documents using these fonts. There are newer and better fonts available.

You're not adding them, you're replacing them with versions that work as they're supposed to. I reported this several times on Apple's bug reporting site. They finally fixed it in a beta release of Sierra. That held in the official release and in version 10.12.1. In version 10.12.2, they went missing again and have been absent in all - and only - Apple's products since then. But yes, please tell me again this isn't a problem in the OS.

It sounds like it could have been a bug in that beta version. Apple does these beta and incremental releases so they can fix these kinds of bugs.

That's beyond insane to make such a statement. Try this. You get a contract to build multiple flyers for a large company. They need it in 20 languages:

You beat your head against a wall trying to do this in Pages, where no matter what you do, you cannot1. get it to show you fonts you must use to complete the project you've been hired for. You're also too stupid or lazy to purchase an app that works as expected. You eventually lose the contract because it's impossible for you to meet any kind of deadline. The company sends it someone who can actually do the work.

2. You use InDesign and have no trouble at all building the project.

Which one is not working correctly? 1 or 2?

There are many problems with that scenario. First of all, it would really be a bad idea to get into the flyer-printing business at this point. Second, you would likely have different teams working on the different languages. You want to make sure the spelling and context is correct for each language and culture. You are going to want people doing that in their native language. In their native language, the appropriate fonts would be available. And they would be the newest, most complete, highest-quality fonts that Apple has provided. (Decent support for Asian languages is still relatively new and Unicode isn't always complete, hence the need for updated fonts.) When those localization teams send their final files for printing, they will print properly because those files area available in the operating system, even if they aren't listed. And if those localization teams are using older versions of the operating system, or perhaps some other system, those "supplemental" font sets will really come in handy.

If anything, this would be easier to do in Pages. Since you aren't making any money on these flyers, you are probably doing it on the cheap. Maybe you are hiring gig people to do the work. They are more likely to have Pages than InDesign. After all, they aren't being hired for their design skills, but their native language abilities. Totally Pages for the win on this one!

You really, really need to stop pretending Apple is infallible.

I have no problem pointing out Apple flaws. I was just complaining about Apple's new logging architecture in a different thread. But in this case, Apple is doing it properly. Those third party apps are the ones that are being lazy. This is trivially easy to do. The data and APIs to do it have existed for years. I was able to figure it out in 5 minutes. I'm not calling anyone stupid. I'm just saying that these 3rd party vendors don't really care about language support and are just dumping in the list any font they can find because they want a big list. If anything, they think less of their users than Apple does. Apple is the company that has made the effort to provide fonts specific to the languages of its users and an architecture to identify and select them. These other companies just don't care.

It sounds like it could have been a bug in that beta version.

Excuse me? They finally fixed a bug in the third beta release, then broke it again two point versions into the general release.

This is pointless to discuss any further with you. The OS is supposed to allow the user to work and use it they see fit, not hinder them.

FWIW, I think your best bet is to contact Kurt directly on his web site. There are certain rules here about what we can or can't discuss.

See if Affinity Photo or related work better, if the folks at Adobe aren’t being responsive to your enhancement requests.