Cannot sync mac with iPhone. Mac insists on an upgrade. Not ready for Catalina. Will Mojave work?

You wrote:

"You don't even need to move from High Sierra. The update is so the OS you're currently using can connect to your iPhone."

This still does not say what's being updated. The update could be to iTunes so that the OS can connect to the phone. In fact, it's actually iTunes that the phone connects to. And iTunes did go from 12.8 to 12.9 during the "software update", and even then it didn't say what it was doing. So that was at least part of it.

The biggest problem is that nowhere in the process does the Mac tell you what's being updated or how long it will take, not even while it's doing the "software update". A security update takes like 35 to 45 minutes. I'd like to know first if it's going to be that long. And an OS upgrade takes even longer.

Fine, but it should tell you when you connect the phone. . . . So you're saying I'm supposed to do a big research project for things like this? For Chrissake, why can't the software just say what it's doing? Is that really too much to ask? I wasted enough time as it is on this.

Kurt Lang wrote:

The biggest problem is that nowhere in the process does the Mac tell you what's being updated or how long it will take, not even while it's doing the "software update"

.

And again. So - what? Why do you care how long it will take? Apple can't give a fixed time since the update can be on an older Mac with a slower CPU, a given Mac may have less RAM, a slow hard drive rather than an SSD.

I'm not asking for a precise answer. If it's going to take on the order of an hour I'll do it at an appropriate time. If it will take something more like a minute or two, I could do it almost anytime. Even an Apple support page for the Mojave update, suggests that want to do it at bedtime. Even taking slower hardware into account, a useful answer can be given.

As an example, I was once doing a OS security update, thinking it would take a few minutes at most. It took 45 minutes. If it's going to take that long, I want to know!!!

Also, many things in Apple show a progress meter. Sometimes you even get a time estimate (as opposed to the why is it taking so long calculating the time bit), and usually it's an overestimate. Obviously, some people other than myself think it's useful.

Either run the update or don't. It's done when it's done.

Maybe I have a deadline to get a project done and I can't afford to casually just do an update or upgrade any old time find myself without my mac for an hour or more. Maybe I need some info right away. I don't use my mac for video games.

When you consider a job offer, do you not take into account how long your commute will be? Hey, you'll get there when you get there.

Kurt Lang wrote:

yet the version number of iTunes does change, going from 12.8 to 12.9.

Why does this surprise you? Of course iTunes gets updated. It has to be able to communicate with a newer version of iOS that didn't exist at High Sierra's release.

I said this because you told me, in fact you stressed it, that it was the OS that was getting updated, not iTunes. This is clear from your post of July 28, 2020, 8:47 AM.

nd in the whole process, the mac and the Apple support pages never tell me what's being updated.

It isn't important to the user to know exactly what's being updated. Would it really help you to know things like framework files are being changed, or other hidden elements of the OS you never see, or maybe never knew about to begin with. We don't need to know every minute detail.

No, and I didn't ask for that. But with Apple's extreme propensity for pushing users to always upgrade to the very latest, I was concerned that it would upgrade to Catalina, which would break a lot of stuff for me. What a great surprise that would be, eh? Yes, I'd like to know what will break before I run it. Maybe syncing is not as important to me as losing what the software update will break. I can't tell if all it tells me is that it's going to do a software update.

I'd like to know if it's updating or upgrading the OS (I'm sure those terms are sometimes used synonymously), which would likely take at least 35 minutes, or iTunes, which would likely take only a few minutes, or both, or what. I'd like to know what it will break before I do it. I've been burned by surprise by Apple's not caring much about backward-compatibility and I don't want it to happen again.

Also it goes against the caution we're encouraged to have when using computers. "Sure, I don't need to know what it does, I'll just run it no matter what!"

n top of that, there's nothing in the App Store or System Preferences regarding this.

So? Why does this matter?

Because it makes it harder to figure out WTF is going on, and I need to know.

So you've never done an update or upgrade and have something break? Obviously you don't use Final Cut, at the very least.

K Shaffer wrote:

The deal here, is most participants who reply here, are not employees

nor compensated in any way by Apple Inc or any of its affiliated mass.

As volunteers and also fellow product users, we're all in the same situ.

Yes, I know.

So these factors and factoids may vary from each individual case; and

any who try & help here, cannot be held to an unreasonable account.

I don't get your point here. If I understand you correctly, I wasn't "holding anyone to an unreasonable account." In fact, it was I who was being "held . . . ." I didn't tell Mr. Lang how to run his computer, but he kept insisting I was being unreasonable. And now you seem to be. So be it.

Details in main updates upgrade articles, (also in Developer) & sections

of Apple; are under revisions ~ technologies move on. As end-users, we

are not privileged to know most of them; nor how each piece works.

I didn't ask such!!! All I wanted to know is what is getting updated. Will it be itunes? The OS? Both? That's it! Again, for the 99,000th time, I don't need more details than that, aside, perhaps, what might break. Apple's propensity to push so hard for users to upgrade to the latest, regardless of anything breaking or all the time wasted, had me worried it would put me on Catalina - which I already know would break important things I need, and I need time to prepare BEFORE the upgrade to Catalina. Is it really too much to simply ask WHAT is being upgraded, and if it's the OS, to what version? I didn't ask for code listings or schematics or IP or trade secrets. Just what's being upgraded. Simple question, no? Just a short list.

Again, for the 99,001th time, I just want to know what's being updated, and if possible, what might break. Oh, a time estimate would be nice, but if I simply know WHAT is being updated, I could probably make a good guess. I'm not asking for code listings, flow charts, frameworks, and whatnot. I'm just asking WHAT is being updated and what might break. I am not asking for code listings, flow charts, frameworks, and whatnot.

I hope I have been clear this time.

..Like when a mover is hired to clear or re-arrange housing contents..

Locations of few items, more or less, may not be immediately known.

I wasn't asking for such. But I would like to know which houses he's moving things to and from. e.g. I'm not asking what roads he will take.

Sorry that some of us 'non-compensated volunteer helpers' have none

of the schematics or builder documents, of other aspects of your day.

Take care & good/safe travels!🌤🎨

Again, all I asked for is what is being updated. If the message simply said that itunes will be updated to allow the phone to connect, that would be all I need to know. Why do you and the other guy keep thinking I want any more detail than that? Where have I asked for such? OK, I asked for a time estimate. Well, excuse me for that.

I'm not asking for schematics or builder documents! Just what's being updated. The OS, the app iTunes, or both. Why do you think I was asking for schematics and such?

And on the Learn More page it says:

"Click Install to download and install the software so your Mac can update or sync your iOS device. If you continue to see this alert, make sure that your software on your Mac and iTunes are up-to-date."

To me this implies a good chance that Catalina is needed. Fortunately, it wasn't. I probably could have even stayed on High Sierra.

I hope I have been clear this time.

Mr. Lang,

The real problem here is that you scolded me for asking a simple question that required only a few words. You scolded me saying I don't need to know. And you scolded me for asking something I didn't even ask. Please just answer the question or don't. Don't tell me it's a stupid question and don't add stuff I didn't ask about. And try to be clear.

Yes, I could have skipped the updated to Mojave. I wanted to update to it eventually anyway, so no biggie on that.

All I asked for is what is being updated. Why is that too much to ask? I didn't ask for code listings, flow charts, etc. Just what is being updated, and in the case of the OS, to what version. (And how long it might take would be nice.) And you basically said, "You don't need to know which software and all the details you didn't ask about. **** the torpedoes. Just do the update."

You kept telling I don't need to know something I never asked about.

>----o----<

I am not twisting your words. If anything it's the reverse. You said:

"Jul 28, 2020 8:47 AM in response to betaneptune

Update of what and to what? The phone is already up to date.

As I said, it's to the OS you're currently using. The OS doesn't understand the newer version of iOS your phone is running. The update allows High Sierra to understand and connect to it.

The OS level won't change. It will still be 10.13.6, but after the update, it will be able to properly communicate with your phone."

You clearly said it will update the OS! In fact, you have it underlined and bolded.

This time you said:

"Here's what this whole discussion between you and I comes down to. You asked if you needed to apply the update, or if it required updating to Mojave so your Mac could access your iPhone. I answered it in two short sentences: You don't even need to move from High Sierra. The update is so the OS you're currently using can connect to your iPhone."

So which is it? Will it update the OS or not? You contradicted yourself. If you don't know, just say so or be quiet! (~_^) Oh, and at one point you said it was only an example.

All I ask is that the program tell me what app or OS it's updating, and in the case of the OS, to what version. Is that really too much to ask for? Instead, you went on and on about details I don't need to know and didn't ask for and basically scolded me in the process.

If you're in the hospital, and you are going to undergo surgery, wouldn't you want to know what organ will be operated on? Would you want your doctor to tell you you don't need to know, and you don't even need to know how long your stay will be? Hey, you'll get out when you get out! Similarly, I want to know what app will be updated, and if the OS will be updated. Is this really too much to ask? I said I couldn't afford a surprise update to Catalina.

You keep telling I don't need to know something I never asked about. And you keep telling me I don't need to even know what software is involved. I don't like making blind changes to my software. Why do you have a problem with that?

BTW, I don't have Carbon Copy Cloner, and it was rather presumptuous for you to assume I did.

Even yes or no decisions require something to base them on. Do I really need to give examples here? Hey, just cross the street or don't. Based on what? Wait for the walk signal or not? Based on what? In both cases you have to base your decision on something, and you're telling me with this update I don't. It is self-evident you need information, pros and cons, to make a good decision. Yet you're telling me: Be a monkey. **** the torpedoes. Just push the button. Who cares what happens?

With the you get paid bit it was an example of needing to know what's going on, and you keep telling me I don't.

And you've repeated things I've already responded to.

All I ask is that the software tell me what's being updated. Why is that too much too ask?

Kurt Lang wrote:

I am not twisting your words.

You absolutely, 100% are. And you just did it again.

As I said, it's to the OS you're currently using. The OS doesn't understand the newer version of iOS your phone is running. The update allows High Sierra to understand and connect to it.

The OS level won't change. It will still be 10.13.6, but after the update, it will be able to properly communicate with your phone."

You clearly said it will update the OS! In fact, you have it underlined and bolded.

Point out where I said it was updating the OS. All the underlined statement means is you'll still be on High Sierra, which seems to be important to you. But regardless of that, of course it's updating the OS as necessary so HS can talk to your iPhone. How else do you think that's going to happen? Magic?

I asked what's being updated and the answer with the underlined bolded statement. That's where. And I don't see why it might not be the case that only iTunes was being updated. But those are details you told me to ignore.

TW, I don't have Carbon Copy Cloner, and it was rather presumptuous for you to assume I did.

And there you go twisting my words again. I never once suggested you already had it. Not even a little. I was explaining how I do my backups and restores. All to give you an option over the incredibly long time it takes Time Machine to do the same thing. I don't think anyone other than you could have possibly thought I meant you already own CCC and aren't using it. Sheesh!

Maybe I did misinterpret it. Sorry.

That's it. I'm truly done responding to you. You make up all kinds of allegations using words I have never, ever said, or somehow manage to spin my words in ways no one but you could possibly get out of them.

OK. We disagree.