Alsoft's Disk Warrior still can't rebuild APFS disks.

No, I have not relation to Alsoft

My post never alluded to that.

I just don't trust any company that says, "look what we found. We can fix it for you for $$."

What I said is that I bet that if you try DiskWarrior, you will see that it finds and fixes many problems on any disk, including booting ones and Time Machine ones.

I have never had a drive that gave me any indication that anything was wrong, so I don't see any reason to pay for something that tells me something is wrong that cannot be detected in normal use.

If I don't sense any problems, and I run their program that tells me I have a wealth of problems and fixes them, how do I know those problems were problems and how do I see that it did any good?

As I've stated, my experience is I've never had a drive that needed any repair, short of the one that failed.

Quite simple. DiskWarrior reports no issues on disks that are OK, but finds and fixes problems on disks with them. A good disk will always generate no issue with DiskWarrior. Tested on thousands of Macs over the years. You do not have to purchase the application. Ask someone with it to try it. You will be surprised. Then purchase it if you want to use it.

As said, I have yet to check if that holds true for APFS disks (once DiskWarrior 6 supporting them is released), but it is certainly true for HFS+ ones. That is for sure.

I forgot to say that DiskWarrior is capable of fixing disk problems that no other utility can do because it uses a unique approach. Instead of trying to patch the directory as others do, which may --and indeed does-- create more and serious problems sometimes, making the situation even worse and eventually rendering the disk completely unusable with all data lost, it rebuilds its directory from scratch. That is why it is so critical to run DiskWarrior first.

A good disk will always generate no issue with DiskWarrior.

All of my disks have generated no issue without DiskWarrior.

Again, what am I supposed to see going wrong with my disk that would warrant repairing with DiskWarrior.

I guess it is all a moot point for me, though, as I have no HFS+ Macs.

You said:

"All of my disks have generated no issue without DiskWarrior.

Again, what am I supposed to see going wrong with my disk that would warrant repairing with DiskWarrior."

You never know until you try. A disk may have a corrupt directory, files may be lost and you may not know if you do not try to access such files amongst the millions that the disk may contain. The only way to know is checking disk directory integrity and all files in the disk. That is what DiskWarrior does in minutes.

Sure. No problem. But this is what experts like "Bob LeVitus" say:

Three Ways to Fix Mac Hard Disk Failures

https://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/dr-macs-rants-raves/three-ways-fix- mac-hard-disk-failures

I posted a comprehensive answer but it no longer shows. Here is a summary:

1. You have the answer to your question in the MacObserver link above, just clicking the person's name link.

2. In relation to this thread about "Alsoft's Disk Warrior still can't rebuild APFS disks", there is interesting information searching Internet with Google:

- Search for: Mac Sys Admin 2017 "Dive into APFS" PDF

and see pages 43, 44 and 45 of Day3Session4.pdf

- Search for Rusty Little (Alsoft/DiskWarrior)

in

disk utilities

https://www.macintouch.com/community/index.php?threads/disk-utilities.697

Also found searching for DiskWarrior-Proj-Mgr

in

DiskWarrior

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/11707/diskwarrior/reviews

That should clarify the situation to everybody interested on the main question of first post of this thread.

Sometimes the symptoms are obvious; for instance, disk does not mount and all content is lost. I have had some cases of that from people that did not care about maintaining their Macs. Sometimes it is too late then; sometimes DiskWarrior can fix it then. I have saved some disks that way. It depends on the degree of damage.

But that is the most extreme situation. Usually, you may not notice the symptoms at all. But if then the disk directory is corrupt, you could overwrite a file and lose it for ever. And you will never notice until you need such file. How could that happen? It may not be frequent, but it can happen when you must force shut down the Mac because got frozen, kernel panic, etc, even turned it off or unplugged from mains without noticing it was on (yes, people do that; amazing but true). It may happen when you boot from external disk and the display goes black, yet it is not fully black (you can only notice that if there is not much light), and then unplug the disk to use it in other Mac (booting at work and home from the same external disk like Samsung Portable SSD T5, for instance) etc.

Or maybe it was a neutrino (no joke intended) that hit the Mac... I do no know... but disk directory corruption is a fact. For any disk, and mostly for Time Machine ones and booting ones with millions of files and big sizes... These things are not science-fiction in my troubleshooting experience of many years with many Macs. It is curious to read people saying that Time Machine disks get corrupt after six months or so... Probably they never rebuilt their directory. Maybe that is less likely or not happen at all with APFS, but I must see it. I guess it will probably happen less frequently, but still will happen, at least under extreme situations like forced Mac shut down.

And additionally, DiskWarrior also optimizes disk directory index to improve speed, checks files and folders for damage and potential compatibility problems, as well as testing hardware. But freedom is great, so the decision is yours. I bet you will never use it.

I wrote to Alsoft in late February this year (2018). It's now September 8, 2018 and still nothing, which I consider inexcusable. Here's the dialog I had with Alsoft...

Me to Alsoft (1st email):

I've been thinking about placing an Upgrade order for DiskWarrior 5.0 (since I own a previous version), but I see it comes on a Flash drive and I also see that version 5.1 is forthcoming. Since I am running High Sierra on all my Macs (which have SSDs and therefore APFS), version 5.1 would be best for me. Do you have a geneal idea of when version 5.1 will be released?

Alsoft to Me (1st reply, from Marc Moorash, Alsoft Technical Support):

For all publicly available information regarding DiskWarrior 5.0 and macOS 10.13 (High Sierra), as well as the new Apple File System (APFS), please visit: (Alsoft website & slash highsierraapfs.html)

Me to Alsoft (2nd email):

Your generic reply to me indicates you did not read the email I sent to you. You merely sent me a link to a web page on your site regard "version 5.0" that I already had read. Therefore, I shall ask my specific question once again in hopes of a more specific answer from you this time...

DO YOU HAVE A GENERAL IDEA OF WHEN DISKWARRIOR "5.1" WILL DEBUT?

My apologies for the all caps, but I want to ensure you can spot my question this time.

By the way, I am fully aware that the web page you linked for me says this:

"What can you expect soon"

But that web page has been up for a long while, which isn't the definition of the word "soon," hence my more specific question.

If you honestly have no idea when version 5.1 will debut and expect it to take a half-year or more (or even never), please simply say that. I value complete honestly and frankness.

Alsoft to Me (2nd reply, this time from Amy Smith, Customer Service):

Thank you for your email. We wish that we could provide more information, but we do not have a timeframe on when the software will be released. We are working on an update, but please understand that the APFS file system is the first file system change in 20 years. We still have not received all the documentation that we require from Apple. Believe me when I say that we want the update as much as you.

If you were to purchase DiskWarrior 5.0, the upgrade to version 5.1 will be a free updater. However, the DiskWarrior 5.1 updater will only recognize the APFS drive. Our next major release will include the ability to repair an APFS drive. When a major release is made available, you would be responsible for the upgrade cost.

Once the update is available, we will have details on our web site.

Me to Alsoft (3rd email):

Thank you for providing details, Amy!

One clarification is needed though. What do you mean when you say "the DiskWarrior 5.1 updater will only recognize the APFS drive"? Are you saying DW5.1 will only fix APFS drives and not be able to fix HFS+ drives? If not, what do you mean?

Alsoft to Me (3rd reply, from Amy Smith, Customer Service):

Thank you for your reply and sorry for the confusion. Currently DiskWarrior 5.0 is unable to recognize the APFS drives. With DiskWarrior 5.1, we will be able to recognize them, but still be unable to repair them. It will be our next major release — which is still future away that will be able to repair APFS drives.

Me to Alsoft (4th email):

Thank you for the explanation. Please allow me to explain the source of my confusion. What good is it to merely "recognize" APFS volumes if DiskWarrior 5.1 then cannot do anything at all with them? It other words, even if your upcoming version 5.1 can see an AFPS volume whereas version 5.0 cannot, the end result is still exactly the same -- nothing at all can be done to APFS volumes. And in either version, HFS+ volumes could be rebuilt as usual. Isn't that correct?

Alsoft to Me (4th reply, from Amy Smith, Customer Service):

Thank you for your reply. Please remember that I am just in sales and I do not have the technical background that our programmers have. Currently DiskWarrior 5.0 is not able to even recognize an APFS drive. The minor update of DiskWarrior 5.1 will allow Diskwarrior to recognize and also provide other needed minor changes. When the update is released, we will have more information about the changes that it includes.

Me to Alsoft (5th and final email):

I see. Well, I appreciate your time, Amy.

And there you have it.

Maybe I should email them again after Mojave is released? Then again, they'd probably reply, "Sorry but MacOS X Mojave is too new and our developers need time to assess the changes."

I really love DiskWarrior, and nothing, not even TechTool Pro, beats it at the directory rebuilding game. But this waiting game is a game none of us wish to play. Apple should buy DiskWarrior and build it into Disk Utility!

Yes, here we are at Mojave release and still no way to rebuild a High Sierra disk (with APFS anyway, it would seem to me a radical idea to install High Sierra but then convert my disk from APFS back to HFS+ format).

I'm still on Sierra as I want to have an ability to rebuild my directory if needed. DiskWarrior saved me once before in a situation where I had my Macbook Pro wasn't able to boot (SSD) and I really don't wish to be without it.

(Also, though a peripheral issue, I use Diskwarrior every few months on my Time Machine when it slows drastically down... when I do that the directory is showing 5 or 6 Directory Optimization index, which surprises me that it can be so low.. why would the Time Machine process create that low level?)

Frustrating that Alsoft can't give us any time frame at all, e.g. months, years or decades.

Emailed sales at Alsoft yesterday, got this reply:

"Thank you for contacting Alsoft. We are working on an update, but please understand that the APFS file system is the first file system change in 20 years. Because HFS+ and APFS are so different, it will take us some time to update the DiskWarrior application to be compatible with APFS. Just last week Apple provided the documentation that we need to safely repair an APFS disc. Yes, we (and all other developers as well) have been waiting on this documentation so that we could safely repair an APFS disc. If you visit our web site, you will see that we have updated it with information for Mojave and also the pending release of DiskWarrior 5.2.

https://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/highsierraapfs.html

DiskWarrior 5.2 will more gracefully deal with APFS. The Preview application in DiskWarrior will gain the ability to copy files to APFS disks when recovering data from a failing Mac OS Extended (HFS Plus) disk. The next major release of DiskWarrior will include the ability to rebuild APFS disks — this will be DiskWarrior 6"

I recently read on Ric Ford's Macintouch about the excellent APFS overview by Tim Standing of SoftRAID, which mentions his contact with Alsoft (DiskWarrior), Micromat (TechTool) and other drive utility makers and the challenges they've faced due to lack of official APFS information:

http://docs.macsysadmin.se/2017/video/Day3Session4.mp4

The presentation is a wealth of great information that, while a tad technical, is good enough to warrant watching the entire video. This video was from the 2017 MacSysAdmin sessions. The great news is that MacSysAdmin 2018 is scheduled to take place next week, which no doubt will shed further light on APFS and the state of drive utilities.

Also note in that video how much faster HFS+ is than APFS, even when used on an SSD, due to the file fragmentation inherent to AFPS. So it would appear that file defragmentation utilities that we all used many years ago may return in popularity due to the nature of APFS.

I have owned Disk Warrior since version 3, and currently own v5. Increasingly, I have used it less and less.

Thanks for the edification on the availability issue.