Problem Bootcamp Windows 10 & Bluetooth

igmackenzie wrote:

As an aside, I was reminded of how crazy it is that we have to do a reg hack to make the Trackpad/Mouse scroll in the natural direction of macOS. It would be a trivial addition to the Bootcamp Control Panel. Why after all these years have Apple not done this. Scroll speed options, etc.?

Apple sees the Windows/Bootcamp market as a very small segment of it's overall market. Unless every Mac sold was used to run Windows, it is unlikely that Apple will do anything. The BC drivers are OEM'd by Apple from Microsoft. If Microsoft wants to sell feature parity between the macOS and Windows side, on Macs, it should come from Microsoft, not Apple.

I’d actually prefer doing it through the registry, as long as a first-party (i.e Apple/Microsoft) solution isn’t there. I’d rather not install all kinds of third-party stuff to accomplish just this one goal… I actually am amazed that it’s not just part of the Mouse settings in either the Settings app or the Control Panel. That’s where you do stuff such as setting tracking speed, double clicking speed and button assignment. So why isn’t “inverse scrolling” part of those settings? Beats me… But as long as it isn’t the case (either by default or through an updated driver) I’d prefer using the Registry Editor to accomplish it. Been doing loads of stuff that way since day one, so this won’t hold me back…

Loner T wrote:

Apple sees the Windows/Bootcamp market as a very small segment of it's overall market. Unless every Mac sold was used to run Windows, it is unlikely that Apple will do anything. The BC drivers are OEM'd by Apple from Microsoft. If Microsoft wants to sell feature parity between the macOS and Windows side, on Macs, it should come from Microsoft, not Apple.

It's a nonsense that Apple behave in this way. They haven't updated the BC Control Panel for years, and are showing total disregard for the many Mac owners who also run Windows. BC is an advertised feature of buying Macs, so Apple should respect those who want to use their products in that manner.

I disagree that it's a MS thing, it is down to Apple to put that (and a few other) trivial change into the BC panel. Not everyone - and I don't include myself - wants, or even knows how, to make registry changes.

Very annoying.

csteelooper wrote:

I’d actually prefer doing it through the registry, as long as a first-party (i.e Apple/Microsoft) solution isn’t there. I’d rather not install all kinds of third-party stuff to accomplish just this one goal… I actually am amazed that it’s not just part of the Mouse settings in either the Settings app or the Control Panel. That’s where you do stuff such as setting tracking speed, double clicking speed and button assignment. So why isn’t “inverse scrolling” part of those settings? Beats me… But as long as it isn’t the case (either by default or through an updated driver) I’d prefer using the Registry Editor to accomplish it. Been doing loads of stuff that way since day one, so this won’t hold me back…

I agree with you, but I'm not saying it should hold you (or anyone else) back, I'm just saying users shouldn't have to make reg changes to get basic pointer device functionality.

igmackenzie wrote:

It's a nonsense that Apple behave in this way. They haven't updated the BC Control Panel for years, and are showing total disregard for the many Mac owners who also run Windows. BC is an advertised feature of buying Macs, so Apple should respect those who want to use their products in that manner.

There is nothing significant in the BC Control Panel, except OS switching. On the new iMacPro, the BC panel allows switching between APFS and Windows automatically. BC is advertised, but you are asking feature parity on Trackpad, not BC. If 5 Macs sold run Windows, and the other 95 run macOS only, who should Apple listen to - 95 or 5?

igmackenzie wrote:

I disagree that it's a MS thing, it is down to Apple to put that (and a few other) trivial change into the BC panel. Not everyone - and I don't include myself - wants, or even knows how, to make registry changes.

Very annoying.

Yet, you just installed a Windows Update to fix an issue of drivers that came from Microsoft. This entire discussion reflects a Microsoft issue, not an Apple issue. You can blame anyone you like, but this is a Microsoft issue. The scroll-wheel setting could very easily be detected and fixed in the Settings of a Mouse/Trackpad, based on PID/VID of the device.

Sorry, but again, I have to disagree with you on all counts!

Simply not true to say that there is nothing significant in the BC panel except OS switching. There are options for Tap to Click, Dragging, Drag Lock, Secondary Tap and Secondary Click on the Trackpad. It would take very little for Apple to add in the Invert Scrolling feature that we are talking about.

Regarding the 5%, I am very glad that developers don't adopt your suggested attitude towards the Mac in general, as its market share isn't much more than that! We would have no apps, no games, and no MS stuff like Office for Mac.

Regarding your 2nd point, of course, I installed a Windows update that fixed this particular incompatibility. That was clearly MS responsibility, but with respect to what we are actually talking about, i.e. missing features from Apple Bootcamp Control Panel, that is 100% down to Apple to implement. It is their hardware, and their software panel.

igmackenzie wrote:

Simply not true to say that there is nothing significant in the BC panel except OS switching. There are options for Tap to Click, Dragging, Drag Lock, Secondary Tap and Secondary Click on the Trackpad. It would take very little for Apple to add in the Invert Scrolling feature that we are talking about.

As I said earlier, the PID/VID of a device can be used to add all these to the native Mouse Control Panel. BC invented this because Windows could not accommodate it.

igmackenzie wrote:

Regarding the 5%, I am very glad that developers don't adopt your suggested attitude towards the Mac in general, as its market share isn't much more than that! We would have no apps, no games, and no MS stuff like Office for Mac.

And you are also in the same 5%. You are the 1% of the 5% running BC/Windows. M$ was forced to take parts of the Office Suite to the Mac to avoid, Numbers/Pages/Keynote or OpenOffice taking over. There is, as of yet, no M$ Visio or Project on the Mac. Most the Gaming is still on Windows. Apple used to have some parity - Myst and many similar titles, but they are gone.

igmackenzie wrote:

Regarding your 2nd point, of course, I installed a Windows update that fixed this particular incompatibility. That was clearly MS responsibility, but with respect to what we are actually talking about, i.e. missing features from Apple Bootcamp Control Panel, that is 100% down to Apple to implement. It is their hardware, and their software panel.

See previous comment on PID/VID. Windows supports many VIDs in their OS. Apple is just another VID. For example, Broadcom BT/Wireless have nothing to do with Apple, neither does the AMD/nVidia GPU.

Apple will do custom development for hardware on their GPUs, especially AMD. nVidia is much better at drivers that works across many OSes.

Doesn't matter about PIDs, etc., it's Apple's hardware, and they should provide basic functionality in their control panel. A lot of it is there already, and making the change we are talking about is trivial. Would you tell Logitech (and other manufacturers) to stop producing their excellent pointing device control panels, and advise them that it's a MS issue to provide.

To stop Numbers/Pages/Keynote taking over? Are you kidding me? I think in the last 30 years of working in corporations and running my own business, that I have come across 1 person who produces stuff from Apple iWorks. It exists purely for die-hard Mac users for their own personal use.

With regard to gaming, I can presume you are not much of a gamer. Several companies like Feral, Aspyr bring many AAA titles to the Mac - albeit a bit later - and there are hundreds, if not thousands of Mac games on Steam. In fact, if Eagle Dynamics produced a Mac version of DCS, I would hardly have a need to boot into Windows at all.

I think your use of the - now rather dated - M$, probably is an indicator of where you stand. (That expression always brings a smile to my face considering Apple's attitude to $$!)

I have been a loyal Mac user for many years now, but that doesn't mean that I close my eyes to any constructive suggestions as to how Apple can improve. As they promote the dual booting nature of Macs, then they should provide support for some of the basic functions of their hardware like the Trackpad/Mouse control panel, and giving users AMD drivers that are not a year old. Just as well resources like bootcampdrivers.com and magicutilities exist.

Doesn't matter if Bootcamp users are 1% of the market - although I have no ides where you get that figure from - if you break any market down far enough, you come to small percentages. As an example, in my restaurant, we have approximately 20 main dishes, and 4 of those are vegetarian options. Approximately 1% of our sales are from vegetarian meals. I guess you would suggest that we only cater for the other 99%. We live in an inclusive world, fortunately.

I strongly agree with you igmackenzie

Apple is one of the biggest companies in the world with lots and lots of money and lots and lots of employees. It wouldn't be any hassle for them to maintain proper Bootcamp Drivers and Apps and working with Microsoft to solve any issues that may arise.

With Apple Software Update, all Bootcamp Drivers should be regularly updated and, what is most important, also AMD Drivers. It's ashaming that Apple only releases graphics drivers one time each year (if any) and that drivers are 1-year old AMD drivers. They could even permit (by supporting it on BCA on macOS) to install Bootcamp on the SSD portion of a Fusion Drive, because Fusion Drive is the most common setup of iMacs since (except iMac Pro) all stock iMac configurations that are bought at retailers come with Fusion Drive and not with only-SSD. But they don't

Why is it so difficult for them to produce a proper Bootcamp Control Panel with all requested functions and with a better UI?

About the Bluetooth problem reported on this post, can everybody confirm that the issues are fixed with the 112 update from Microsoft of April 10? I hope Windows 10 1803 / RS4 / Spring Creators Update already contains the fix when it is released this week.

igmackenzie wrote:

Doesn't matter about PIDs, etc., it's Apple's hardware, and they should provide basic functionality in their control panel. A lot of it is there already, and making the change we are talking about is trivial. Would you tell Logitech (and other manufacturers) to stop producing their excellent pointing device control panels, and advise them that it's a MS issue to provide.

Logitech produces drivers that are WHQL-certified. Apple OEMs drivers from Microsoft. There is a significant difference.

igmackenzie wrote:

To stop Numbers/Pages/Keynote taking over? Are you kidding me? I think in the last 30 years of working in corporations and running my own business, that I have come across 1 person who produces stuff from Apple iWorks. It exists purely for die-hard Mac users for their own personal use.

Corporations also issue Macs today, which they did not 10 years ago. I use a corporate Mac for all my work. I use the Unix side of Mac, which is unavailable on the Windows side. Cygwin and similar products do not scale and are slow. I use Windows when I need to, but do not allow anything other than security updates. If they break something, I have to provide my own fixes. At one point, Bill Gates was an investor in Apple under Jobs.

igmackenzie wrote:

With regard to gaming, I can presume you are not much of a gamer. Several companies like Feral, Aspyr bring many AAA titles to the Mac - albeit a bit later - and there are hundreds, if not thousands of Mac games on Steam.

Apple will also update their drivers - albeit a bit later. 😉 Gaming on a mobile GPU is painful on a Mac laptop. My son plays Steam games on a Mini circa 2011 (AMD 6630), and uses W7. I am not very fond of W10, as you can tell.

igmackenzie wrote:

In fact, if Eagle Dynamics produced a Mac version of DCS, I would hardly have a need to boot into Windows at all.

By the same token, ED should consider porting DCS to the Mac, based on your 1% vegetarian example, correct?

igmackenzie wrote:

I think your use of the - now rather dated - M$, probably is an indicator of where you stand. (That expression always brings a smile to my face considering Apple's attitude to $$!)

I have been a loyal Mac user for many years now, but that doesn't mean that I close my eyes to any constructive suggestions as to how Apple can improve. As they promote the dual booting nature of Macs, then they should provide support for some of the basic functions of their hardware like the Trackpad/Mouse control panel, and giving users AMD drivers that are not a year old. Just as well resources like bootcampdrivers.com and magicutilities exist.

The basic functions are supported, but not the esoteric ones, like Gestures, or many of the two-finger and three-finger touch features. This comes down to the definition of what is 'basic'.

igmackenzie wrote:

Doesn't matter if Bootcamp users are 1% of the market - although I have no ides where you get that figure from - if you break any market down far enough, you come to small percentages. As an example, in my restaurant, we have approximately 20 main dishes, and 4 of those are vegetarian options. Approximately 1% of our sales are from vegetarian meals. I guess you would suggest that we only cater for the other 99%. We live in an inclusive world, fortunately.

You provided and example of ED/DCS on Macs or lack thereof, and yet provide a contradictory example. If you want attract a specific clientele in your restaurant and the 99% can provide revenues to sustain the 1%, then Apple is doing the same, correct? This is not about inclusion/exclusion, but pure profit. Products get cut, because their Sales are no longer profitable. Apple is not the same as Paul Newman (https://www.newmansown.com/). 😉 It is laudable that you choose to cater to vegetarians, even if 1% traffic is all you get from them.

Hello all,

So my Magic Mouse 2 was working just fine after the Windows update last week, now today I logged it to Windows through Bootcamp and the mouse won’t work!!! The keyboard works fine.

What happened? Anyone else? What to do?

Thanks

czaharop wrote:

Hello all,

So my Magic Mouse 2 was working just fine after the Windows update last week, now today I logged it to Windows through Bootcamp and the mouse won’t work!!! The keyboard works fine.

What happened? Anyone else? What to do?

Thanks

That would be seriously annoying… I haven’t tested yet. Since I haven’t powered on the Windows-side of my machine literally since my last post, I’d expect things to be where they were then. Having said that, it may well be the case that yet another update has been installed and brought you right back to where you were (as in: you’re mouse is back to not wanting to connect). So, the first thing you might want to do is to check the installed updates history and see if that was indeed the case. Check the dates as to when updates have been installed, and post the update(s) that have been installed since your last successful use here. That way, aside from informing fellow users, we could also investigate exactly what it is these eventual new updates have changed.

If there have been no new updates, that would be very strange indeed. I have used Windows multiple times after the last batch of new updates (which gave us the mouse back), with multiple restarts in between. That means that the resurrection of the mouse has been anything but a fluke. So if no new updates would have been installed since your last successful use and today, something else would have to be the matter…

Anyway, for the time being, it would be a waiting game once more… Because apart from finding out what updates might be the culprit, there really isn’t all that much we can do ourselves. For devices other than the Apple devices, we could perhaps try to obtain device drivers straight from the suppliers (i.e. Broadcom, Intel, AMD, etc.). But for any device made by apple or having been specifically modified for apple, such a thing would be very difficult indeed...

All of this means that we would be back to using different devices within Windows (specifically a different mouse), at least until Apple or Microsoft come up with a solution…

Yep, me too. I am behind on a software order I must deliver to a client and this is painful to me. I was so proud when I decided to buy the top of the line MacBook Pro in 2016, running both MacOS and Windows 10 native! I was talking to other Software Engineers about the benefits of doing that. Now I feel like I made a mistake. Who the heck must solve this? Apple? Microsoft? Came on, show some respect here!!!

When I restart in MacOS, I must plug both the Magic Trackpad 2 and the Magic Mouse 2 using the lightning cable to have the devices connect via Bluetooth. Honestly, I am filing childish with all this story.

Has anybody checked the new Microsoft Surface Book 2?

VGonzalez1973 wrote:

Who the heck must solve this? Apple? Microsoft? Came on, show some respect here!!!

Microsoft. Try W10 1607 release as a workaround, if you are willing to go back to an older W10 release.

FYI, I had the same issue and I removed the recent MS update KB4088776 - as a result, the magic mouse 2 is working again on my iMac, but I had to disable Windows updates after that to stop if from reinstalling. As soon as it's reinstalled, it kills the mouse and it has to be re-paired in macOS before it will work again.